54 10 556 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Old City Cemetery Gravesite The site of a grave. Age Years 69 Birth Year 1822 Birth City Redruth Birth County Cornwall Birth Country Code UK Birth Country England Comments repaired stone in large fenced plot Death State Postal WI Death State Wisconsin Death Year 1891 First Name Mary Last Name Richmond Maiden Name Stephens Gravestone Section.Stone.Burial SW.04.1 Cemetery Old City Cemetery Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Richmond, Mary (1822-1891) Gravesite of Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Old City Cemetery Gravesite The site of a grave. Age Years 74 Birth Year 1781 Death Day 06 Death State Postal WI Death State Wisconsin Death Month 03 Death Year 1855 First Name William Last Name Hewett Gravestone Section.Stone.Burial SW.42.1 Cemetery Old City Cemetery Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hewett, William (1781-1855) Gravesite of https://mineralpointlibraryarchives.org/omeka/files/original/2ed109a5ee2d30ad4d82f86922571630.m4a 051bee11ca53124e058abaa0b9b79ebf Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pendarvis Interview - Part II https://mineralpointlibraryarchives.org/omeka/files/original/8115bd280787ca65b94c597b04c347be.pdf 5b350249cc88b881fca827d029e23ddb PDF Text Text Roy Penberthy (00:00:50): Tell us some more Bob. Bob Neal (00:00:52): Well, I read a whole bunch of Samuel Crawford. He was an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court. I’ve got dozens of his books with his name in them. Jack Holzhueter (00:01:04): Hm. Bob Neal (00:01:04): And I don't know what to do with them. I want to get rid of them. They're not worth anything. Hume's History of England and things that were, I suppose, in the '40s and '50s. And I don't know what to do with them, but I'd like to dispose of them. Alright, ohJack Holzhueter (00:01:25): Well, at any rate, to complete the little tale, Mrs. ... uh the widow uh Penberthy wouldn't give the widow Williams, who became Mrs. Tregay, her deed. And Mrs. Tregay took her to court and the judge said, "Okay, I've heard the evidence. I find in favor of Mrs. Tregay." And Mrs. Williams had to give her the deed. And that was that. So we know how, from that instance how kind of sloppy Mr. Kislingbury must have been initially with his land dealings. Bob Neal (00:02:00): Sure, yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:02:00): And we've also been able to date, within a matter of months, the erection of the cottage uh for Mrs. Williams and her husband Henry. Now, they were a bit older. They were in their 50s, or late 40s, when that thing was erected. And we we haven't been able to learn anything more about Henry Williams or Anne Williams, and we hope that maybe you've at least heard their names. Bob Neal (00:02:24): Sounds like a Welshman. Roy Penberthy (00:02:27): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, it does, definitely. Jack Holzhueter (00:02:29): We think that she's related, somehow, to either the Carbises or the Thomases, but we aren't sure. Roy Penberthy (00:02:36): Doesn't ring a bell with me. Bob Neal (00:02:36): �Carbis, well, the last house that Carbis built, let's see? Was it this rock house down here, or was it up here? James Carbis? Jack Holzhueter (00:02:47): Oh. What? When when was this about? Bob Neal (00:02:55): Well, when did Carbis die? Jack Holzhueter (00:02:59): We've never found that out. Bob Neal (00:03:02): We got a picture of him. Jack Holzhueter (00:03:04): Oh, you do? Is it in the Mineral Point room? Bob Neal (00:03:08): Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:03:08): Great. Bob Neal (00:03:12): Yeah, he’s got a full gray beard. James Carbis. Jack Holzhueter (00:03:17): And he was a mason? Roy Penberthy (00:03:20): Oh yes. Bob Neal (00:03:24): Stone mason. Jack Holzhueter (00:03:25): Well, I think he would have died long before you were born and hisBob Neal (00:03:28): Oh, I think so. Jack Holzhueter (00:03:29): �His childrenBob Neal (00:03:30): Roy might have been living, but I wasn't. Jack Holzhueter (00:03:35): It's his widow who died in 1903, Elizabeth. And her ... she died at the home of her daughter Susan Teasdale out in Iowa and was brought back here for burial. And then there were others in that family. Are you familiar with the uh Charles family? Uh Susan CharlesBob Neal (00:03:50): John Charles the carpenter? Roy Penberthy (00:03:50): No, I'm not. I don't know. Carl? Bob Neal (00:03:50): Charles. Jack Holzhueter (00:03:50): Charles. Roy Penberthy (00:03:50): Oh, Charles. Oh. Bob Neal (00:03:51): And Wasley. Charles and Wasley had a, some kind of furniture store because I got ... Makes me so annoyed. I had this, I got half of this sign of Charles and Wasley, and I had it up at the museum for a while and somebody wanted a wide board so they took half of the sign and sawed it up. I've got the other half. Jack Holzhueter (00:04:33): So the Carbises are strangers? Not exactly strangers. Mrs. Carbis ... We think James Carbis had a sister who was married to Richard Goldsworthy. Does that make sense? Roy Penberthy (00:04:47): Not to me, no. Jack Holzhueter (00:04:50): Richard Goldsworthy? But they ... And their daughter Fanny married Mr. Charles. Bob Neal (00:05:06): Goldsworthys are a dime a dozen. �Jack Holzhueter (00:05:06): Oh. Liz Holmes (00:05:06): Edgar's about to arrive. Jack Holzhueter (00:05:06): Okay. Now um where did the Prideauxs live in Prideaux Hollow? Which is Spruce Street or what's often called Prideaux Hollow on pictures we've seen. Bob Neal (00:05:17): Predix. Predix. Predix. Roy Penberthy (00:05:17): Predix. Jack Holzhueter (00:05:19): Predix you say? Roy Penberthy (00:05:20): Predix. Bob Neal (00:05:20): Predix. Jack Holzhueter (00:05:20): Oh boy. Okay. Predix. I'll have to change my names. Bob Neal (00:05:26): And and it was, and it was spelled phonetically P-R-E-D-I-X, I think, Predix. Jack Holzhueter (00:05:32): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Okay. Have you seen that? Yep. Bob Neal (00:05:34): Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:05:36): Are there descendants of those numerous Predixes still around here? Roy Penberthy (00:05:41): No. �Bob Neal (00:05:43): Well, Ethel, Jessie and Nettie. Roy Penberthy (00:05:46): Are Jessie and Nettie? Yeah, mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:05:46): Prideaux. Roy Penberthy (00:05:49): Yeah, they're dead. Bob Neal (00:05:50): Oh, there are Prideaux's in Dodgeville. He was post master wasn't he? Roy Penberthy (00:05:55): I don't know. Bob Neal (00:05:56): Bob Prideaux. Roy Penberthy (00:05:58): Oh, I believe that's right, yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Well, when Ethel Tredinnick, wasn't she was a Prideaux wasn't she? Sure. Bob Neal (00:06:08): Ethel? Roy Penberthy (00:06:09): Sure. Bob Neal (00:06:11): Ethel Prideaux, yes, of course. Roy Penberthy (00:06:13): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:06:14): Here's my partner, Edgar. Jack Holzhueter (00:06:16): Alright. �Roy Penberthy (00:06:17): Hi Edgar. Jack Holzhueter (00:06:18): We're adding another voice to the tape, and it's gonna be that of Edgar Hellum. Roy Penberthy (00:06:23): Did you get the password from him? Jack Holzhueter (00:06:24): Um the password? Roy Penberthy (00:06:28): Nothing. Jack Holzhueter (00:06:28): No, there isn't a password. Maybe we should move your chair closer so you're near the microphone. Dan (00:06:32): Yeah, you may sit here. Bob Neal (00:06:45): Oh. Do you know an early abstract of any of the early, any names ... Early names, not the name early, but early names? Edgar Hellum (00:06:59): You mean part of the Pendarvis properties? Bob Neal (00:07:00): No. On the Early, Effie Early's house. Edgar Hellum (00:07:03): Oh, yes. I um Herord um. Bob Neal (00:07:13): Prideaux? Edgar Hellum (00:07:15): Yes, I think so. Hey, get out the abstracts. I don't remember them, but it goes way back. It goes back to '47. Roy Penberthy (00:07:22): Oh, God. �Edgar Hellum (00:07:27): One abstract. Jack Holzhueter (00:07:28): Which lot? Which outlot are you on Mr. Hellum? Edgar Hellum (00:07:32): Which lot? Jack Holzhueter (00:07:33): Out lot, the original out lot number. Do you remember? 187 or something like that. Edgar Hellum (00:07:39): I'm not sure. Jack Holzhueter (00:07:41): Well, maybe you could show a map so we canEdgar Hellum (00:07:43): It's right here. Roy Penberthy (00:07:48): Gee, I wouldn't want your job. Jack Holzhueter (00:07:49): Why? Roy Penberthy (00:07:49): Hard job. Jack Holzhueter (00:07:53): Oh that? Oh, Dan's done all the work. I just, he brings it to the office and I look at it. Edgar Hellum (00:07:56): This is the ... It's in two sections. Jack Holzhueter (00:08:01): Okay. The the we know that John Gray and Samson Thomas built the east house in the Row, Tamblyn's Row in about 1844. Edgar Hellum (00:08:11): This is the north section. �Jack Holzhueter (00:08:12): And we're convinced from an 1846 census that John Gray and his wife, Susan Gray, Susan Thomas Gray, lived there very briefly. The Grays, Alma particularly, and all of her husband's family never associated themselves with any of those properties down there. Do you ever associate them? Roy Penberthy (00:08:38): No. Jack Holzhueter (00:08:38): With that area at all? Bob Neal (00:08:39): The Grays? No. Jack Holzhueter (00:08:39): Not at all. Bob Neal (00:08:42): They built, they built the Gray house, was built about in the '60s I would say. About the same time that Joe Gundry built the museum. Roy Penberthy (00:08:51): Oh yeah. Bob Neal (00:08:53): Because the uhJack Holzhueter (00:08:54): The Gray house on Maiden Street? Bob Neal (00:08:55): On Maiden Street. Roy Penberthy (00:08:56): Yeah. Bob Neal (00:08:57): And uh the newel post of the Gray house, and the newel post over at Uncle Will's are identical. So they must have had the same carpenters or had access to the same materials. Jack Holzhueter (00:09:17): What about Bawdens, the name? B-A-W-D-E-N. �Bob Neal (00:09:18): Bawden? Bawden? Roy Penberthy (00:09:22): Bawden. Jack Holzhueter (00:09:22): Bawden. Bob Neal (00:09:22): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bawden. No, I don't know. Jack Holzhueter (00:09:24): No Bawdens. Roy Penberthy (00:09:24): I knew Ed Bowden. That's all I know. Bob Neal (00:09:29): Where'd he live Roy? Roy Penberthy (00:09:31): He lived up there onBob Neal (00:09:32): Kitty corner from Saint Paul's? Roy Penberthy (00:09:35): As you turn to go on Fountain Street. Bob Neal (00:09:37): Yeah. Roy Penberthy (00:09:38): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (00:09:40): Was he a carpenter, builder type? Roy Penberthy (00:09:42): Uh I think he was a farmer, I think. Bob Neal (00:09:43): �Well, Billy Bowden works over in Platteville. Roy Penberthy (00:09:47): Oh? Bob Neal (00:09:48): At the uhRoy Penberthy (00:09:49): Did a brotherBob Neal (00:09:49): Timbers. Roy Penberthy (00:09:51): Oh really? Oh yes, the daughter. Bob Neal (00:09:54): Yeah. Roy Penberthy (00:09:54): Yeah. I saw her there one time. That's right. Jack Holzhueter (00:10:01): What about the Remfrey family? Roy Penberthy (00:10:02): Oh, Harold Remfrey. Jack Holzhueter (00:10:05): How are they related to Andrew, that's anotherRoy Penberthy (00:10:07): She, related to the Engelses? His mother was an Engel. Bob Neal (00:10:07): He was related to Millie Bray too. Roy Penberthy (00:10:12): Yes. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. Bob Neal (00:10:20): �Yeah, Remfrey, that's a, well I'll say well known name, it's associated with the community. I don't what Harold Remfrey was. Roy Penberthy (00:10:36): Yeah, Harold Remfrey, yeah. He has another brother, there was two of them. I don't remember his name. Jack Holzhueter (00:10:43): Well, the far west end of the Spruce Street lots, the original out lots were sliced off by Mr. Remfrey, oh some time about when Dan? Dan (00:10:57): About 1855 I believe. Jack Holzhueter (00:10:59): Yeah. 100 feet, and he evidently lived there, built a house up there. And we wonder whether there are any members of that family around, but you've named some of them. Where could we find them? Edgar Hellum (00:11:14): Who lived, who lived in the house that had the greenhouse on it that Bill Kislingbury talked about? Up in the back of the restaurant. Bob Neal (00:11:23): Goldsworthy's. Goldsworthy. It burned. Jack Holzhueter (00:11:25): The Goldsworthys? Edgar Hellum (00:11:26): Goldsworthy. That was quite a house in its day. Jack Holzhueter (00:11:29): Which Goldsworthy? Do you know the name? Bob Neal (00:11:31): No, I don't. Roy Penberthy (00:11:33): What house was that? Bob Neal (00:11:36): Roy, I'm surprised you don't remember that fire. Roy Penberthy (00:11:38): �I don't. No, I don't recall that. Edgar Hellum (00:11:42): Well, then the old man bought that home, he had 11 acres there. And we bought the hundred feet from him you know? Bob Neal (00:11:49): Hoss? Edgar Hellum (00:11:53): Hoss, mm-hmm (affirmative). And he owned, he owned that place where the house stood and thenBob Neal (00:11:56): Yeah. Edgar Hellum (00:11:57): All up in back of the Priestleys. Bob Neal (00:12:00): Is there anything left of that? I haven't been up there in years. Edgar Hellum (00:12:01): Foundation. Bob Neal (00:12:02): Foundation is still there? Edgar Hellum (00:12:04): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (00:12:05): That must be the the Goldsworthys that ended up owning that whole ... They were descended from the Tamblyns by the way. Roy Penberthy (00:12:13): Oh? Jack Holzhueter (00:12:13): Mrs. Goldsworthy was a Tamblyn daughter. Edgar Hellum (00:12:17): Oh. Jack Holzhueter (00:12:17): �And there were two generations of Goldsworthys. Bob Neal (00:12:20): You mean Mrs. Tamblyn was a Goldsworthy? Jack Holzhueter (00:12:24): Uh-uh. Isaac Tamblyn had a daughter who married a Goldsworthy and inherited the property. Bob Neal (00:12:28): Oh, I see. Jack Holzhueter (00:12:29): And then their daughter sold it. To theDan (00:12:35): Tamblyn the daughter. Jack Holzhueter (00:12:35): Yeah. Edgar Hellum (00:12:38): Well, we wanted to square off see a piece of property. Jack Holzhueter (00:12:42): Oh yeah, you had a mess there with the barns. Edgar Hellum (00:12:44): And and then it blew that great big elm tree, which of course we lost in the meantime, but uh Hossert to the left of us, he said well why don't you buy the whole farm? We offered him, I think we offered him $100 for the the footage. It wasn'tBob Neal (00:12:57): Oh, it's 10 feet. Edgar Hellum (00:12:57): I remember part of it was on this side of Spruce Street, but then it included a piece of land up in the back of of the road. So he sold me the whole thing for 1100. So for another $1000, we could've had the whole farm. And we, we didn't know what to do with the property. Well, after all we had more property along there. Bob Neal (00:13:17): We didn't make use of the land, you know? What to do with theEdgar Hellum (00:13:18): �And uh it was too bad that we didn't buy it, because we could've made some money, or we would've protected the house. This was jeopardized recently when they, when the um they wanted to put a roadway down alongside the road to go up to the new subdivision. And it was part of a whole thing, there would have been their thoroughfare. And if we'd owned that piece of property, they wouldn't do it. Well, so far, fortunately, it hasn't happened. Jack Holzhueter (00:13:48): Oh, I hope it doesn't. Dan (00:13:50): There's a house that stands today that is just up Spruce Street at up up from the, it's the next house up from the row house. Was, it looks like that may have been an old house. Edgar Hellum (00:14:03): That is an old house. You've never ... It's it's uhBob Neal (00:14:06): Brick. Edgar Hellum (00:14:07): Part of it is brick. Dan (00:14:08): Right. Edgar Hellum (00:14:08): Mm-hmm (affirmative). That's umBob Neal (00:14:10): Bill Priestly. Roy Penberthy (00:14:10): Priestly's house. Bill Priestly, yeah. Edgar Hellum (00:14:14): Bill Priestly's house, but I don't know who owned it before him. Roy Penberthy (00:14:15): Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:14:16): Well, it might be a run for your Prideaux. Dan (00:14:19): �Uh it's it looks like it's the property that a Steven Prideaux Senior owned. Roy Penberthy (00:14:22): Oh. Edgar Hellum (00:14:22): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (00:14:24): It's on that part of it? We've not measured that. Dan (00:14:28): No, but it would, it would be most likely to be that house that we see in the 1871 map. Jack Holzhueter (00:14:32): So that should be Steven Prideaux Senior, and junior would live down below on the on the west end, or the east end of the row. Dan (00:14:43): Um. Jack Holzhueter (00:14:44): Between Kislingbury, or Polperro, and the Row, there was an early house in '43 that Steven Prideaux Junior bought a lot for and lived in with oodles of kids. They had at least 10. Bob Neal (00:14:55): Oh. Jack Holzhueter (00:14:56): They, I don't know how they survived, but they did. Edgar Hellum (00:14:59): The one thing we never ran down about the Row, the log house probably was the first house. And the only thing we ever found out, that it was likely a miner would live there and would be here in the summertime. And in the wintertime would go south to Missouri. I can't remember who, whether Bill Kislingbury conjectured that or not. We never found out definitely. Jack Holzhueter (00:15:21): WellEdgar Hellum (00:15:22): And we've never run down the papers on that particular piece of property to to find out if that was the earliest one, because seemingly then the rock portion, the rest of the Row was added onto that house you see? That Tamblyn got that. �Jack Holzhueter (00:15:36): Well, we figured out everything except just that. We're waiting to get from Washington, the original preemption papers, or copies of them I should say, for the lots. Until now, until we began this work, the um nowhere in Wisconsin were there the original town site records for Mineral Point. Jack Holzhueter (00:15:58): There's a separate book that never was given to the National Archives of the town site sales at the Bureau of Land Management, which is in Alexandria, Virginia. But, they filmed that for us, and we've now gotten all of that, plus the certificate numbers. The certificates themselves with the preemption proofs and descriptions of the property, presumably, we aren't sure, because we haven't seen it yet, are at the National Archives and we're waiting for those to come. Jack Holzhueter (00:16:25): So we'll know, but our presumption is that in '39, judging from the sale prices for those properties, and there were three classes of properties in Mineral Point on Vleit's Survey and Harrison's Surveys, and these were the third class, which should mean unimproved in all respects. So in '39 there was probably nothing there at all, but by '44 there must've been something there because when Mr. Sampson Thomas and John Gray put up the east house in the Row they lined it up, more or less, with what was there. Otherwise there would have been no reason to build them in what appears to be a line. Bob Neal (00:17:05): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Roy Penberthy (00:17:05): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (00:17:07): They could have picked, that that hill gave you many options for house placement, but the Cornish habit seems to have been, even in countryside building, when they would uh erect temporary villages to extract mineral deposits of rather minimal uh extent, they'd put up stone houses in the middle of the countryside and abandon them within a few years time. And they would often build them in terraces. And there are still ruins of those here and there. You're probably familiar with them Mr. Neal. Bob Neal (00:17:38): Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:17:38): Uh Dorothy Sweet has helped us. She is head of the of the Cornish Family Association, and we've been in touch with her. Bob Neal (00:17:47): Is she a Rogers? Jack Holzhueter (00:17:49): �She's from Cornwall. Bob Neal (00:17:51): Oh. Jack Holzhueter (00:17:51): And she lives in Newquay, I think. I can't remember. Edgar Hellum (00:17:55): That was in, uh that's certainly that statement's certainly true. And when I was in Cornwall, I couldn't understand how they would abandonJack Holzhueter (00:18:02): They were temporary. Edgar Hellum (00:18:03): That's right. And here they put up these tremendous stone buildings. All the timber gone, but the whole stone structure is there. And my first reaction, I the the people that I stayed with, I said well, could we buy that property? Well, he didn't know. What would you do with it? And I said, well, I'd put the timber, I'd put the floors back and I'd put the roof on and I said you'd have the most marvelous building. Well, I suppose you could he said. Edgar Hellum (00:18:28): And so, once or twice we stopped the car and we walked down to these buildings, and here is the great uh chimney for the steam lifts, magnificent things, all standing. Then in the town of Saint Day itself, which is the old mining town like Mineral Point was here, um so many houses. And I said, oh, what a time you could have to come back here and restore these. Edgar Hellum (00:18:54): Well, funny enough Derrick became interested and the next, the third time I went over he said, oh you'll have to come and see. He said we bought a little house. And we went over on a hillside and here it was, a very small stone cottage, but its spring is still running in the backyard. A rock formation in the back and this little spring running out. And he said now this is, we're fixing this wing. This is your wing he said, when you come back to Cornwall. And I said, well, I'm coming back? Oh, you're gonna return to Cornwall. I said, well, I said my partner is the one who should return to Cornwall, he's the Cornishman and I'm a full blooded Norwegian. But they insisted that that's where I was going to be and going to have. Edgar Hellum (00:19:34): Well, they did attempt restoration. Poor man, he didn't too much knowhow, but oh I could've had fun if I could just spend a few years in Cornwall or take and put some of these buildings back in Cornwall. Jack Holzhueter (00:19:46): There's still hundreds of them I'm told. �Edgar Hellum (00:19:48): Oh, yes. An unlimited amount of rock of course. You know you could buy two or three houses and buy one or two others and and have the extra rock for replacement. They could, we could we could do it there just like we did here in Mineral Point. Jack Holzhueter (00:20:02): I think more, probably more so. They're more available there. Uh here in Mineral Point, well, we've pretty much exhausted the family names, but I'll go on with the the long list of persons that we've associated with the site and see whether any of them uh ring bells. Thomas Kinsman, now I should tell you that we are in touch with Kinsman descendants. Do you know of any? Gale Clayton of of of of Madison is doing, our Kinsman descendant is doing a long genealogy of the Kinsman family. Roy Penberthy (00:20:35): No, I don't know. Bob Neal (00:20:35): Helen Kinsman. Roy Penberthy (00:20:35): Helen? Bob Neal (00:20:37): Yeah. And uh Bobby Kinsman. Roy Penberthy (00:20:46): Well, they're brother and sister aren't they? Bob Neal (00:20:46): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (00:20:47): But do you know whether they ever feel that they have anything to do with Pendarvis in the dim, dark past? Bob Neal (00:20:52): No. No. Roy Penberthy (00:20:52): No. I don't think so. Jack Holzhueter (00:20:53): Thomas Whitford, did any of the Whitfords ever ... You say there's a million of them. �Bob Neal (00:20:54): Not to my knowledge. Roy Penberthy (00:20:54): Oh, there's a lot of Whitfords, yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:20:54): Do they claim Kislingbury familyBob Neal (00:21:01): Blanche Treweek told me her mother was a Whitford you know? Roy Penberthy (00:21:05): Oh? Bob Neal (00:21:06): And I think Blanche told me that her grandfather Whitford and Trewick were married in Polperro. You remember Blanche saying that? She’s the librarian here. Jack Holzhueter (00:21:26): Could be. Bob Neal (00:21:26): But the Whitfords are a dime a dozen. Roy Penberthy (00:21:27): Yeah, mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:21:27): There were a lot of Whitfords. Jack Holzhueter (00:21:33): I already asked you about Walter Darlington. Roy Penberthy (00:21:36): Yeah. Bob Neal (00:21:36): Never heard of him. Jack Holzhueter (00:21:36): And Richard Moyle. Never heard of him. �Roy Penberthy (00:21:38): Uh-uh (negative). Jack Holzhueter (00:21:39): John Hitchens? Roy Penberthy (00:21:41): Hitchens. Bob Neal (00:21:42): It was a name that is familiar, but I never knew anything about them. Jack Holzhueter (00:21:51): Okay. Roy Penberthy (00:21:51): And um the Hitchens, uh there is an attorney from out in Ioway, which is, any relation to the Heinzs? Do you know them? Banker Heinz, they had a farm west of Mineral Point. Bob Neal (00:22:04): What was his name? Hitchens? Roy Penberthy (00:22:09): Uh Heinz here, but Hitchens, this attorney from out, he still had interest in the property out there, but uh that's the only time I ever heard that name. Bob Neal (00:22:21): Alright. Jack Holzhueter (00:22:23): Fine. Thomas Martin, the sentence of ... He was the one who first owned the row house properties, both outlots, he died very soon thereafter. Um his son John, and John's wife Christina, inherited most of it. And a little bit of it was inherited by Richard and Elizabeth Oates. Do any of those namesRoy Penberthy (00:22:49): Oates, yeah. Bob Neal (00:22:53): The Oates, yeah. Roy Penberthy (00:22:53): Sienie Oates. �Bob Neal (00:22:54): And John, John Oates. Roy Penberthy (00:22:55): There were three sisters and they called them Faith, Hope and Charity. Bob Neal (00:22:58): Oh, Seena Oates. Didn't she teach Sunday school? Roy Penberthy (00:23:02): Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:23:03): Oh, I think I had her as a Sunday school teacher. Roy Penberthy (00:23:05): Some Sundays you'd put a penny on the book. Sometimes she'd read your name and you'd go up and put a penny on the book. Bob Neal (00:23:10): No. Roy Penberthy (00:23:10): If they had it. Jack Holzhueter (00:23:12): What church was this? Bob Neal (00:23:13): Which one was theRoy Penberthy (00:23:13): The Congregational. Edgar Hellum (00:23:16): Which one owned the little house up on the highway that we wanted to buy? Emma? Bob Neal (00:23:21): Senna wasn't it? Seena Oates? Roy Penberthy (00:23:26): Johnny Oates used to deliver milk around town. �Bob Neal (00:23:28): Yeah. Roy Penberthy (00:23:28): Don't you remember he'd blow a whistle? Bob Neal (00:23:29): Well, the Oates house is still standing out here. Roy Penberthy (00:23:32): Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Out there, mm-hmm (affirmative). Edgar Hellum (00:23:32): But this little house that we wanted was a frame house and they tore it down. Roy Penberthy (00:23:35): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Edgar Hellum (00:23:36): But we wanted to buy that. That was a marvelous old house. Roy Penberthy (00:23:38): Yes it was. Jack Holzhueter (00:23:40): So there are lots of Oates still around? Bob Neal (00:23:42): No. Roy Penberthy (00:23:42): No, there were no descendants. They were old maids and old bachelors. I remember that, truly. Bob Neal (00:23:46): There weren't anyJack Holzhueter (00:23:48): Carla Mackey Elizabeth, I might add, who was kicked out of the um Methodist church here for having had her first child after five months of marriage. The Methodist records are very precise on the point. And a trial that she wasBob Neal (00:24:04): �Well, the Presbyterian uh uh records of the Presbyterian church, they're in the Mineral Point Room. There are any number of entries where somebody went to a dance and they were excommunicated. Jack Holzhueter (00:24:24): For having a good time huh? Bob Neal (00:24:25): Or they wouldn't sit next to them in church. Jack Holzhueter (00:24:31): Well, Mrs. Williams was kicked out for not attending meetings. Well, the Predixes we've done. The Tregaskis family. I'm not sure whether I'm saying that right. Tregaskis. Roy Penberthy (00:24:43): How do you, how's it spelled? Jack Holzhueter (00:24:44): T-R-E-G-A-S-K-I-S. Bob Neal (00:24:47): Well, the Tregaskis store was in near where you were born. Roy Penberthy (00:24:52): Oh? I didn't know that. Bob Neal (00:24:55): Yeah. Roy Penberthy (00:24:55): In the ... Oh. Bob Neal (00:24:55): There was ... A million years ago they came out to Pendarvis. She said I ... I think she said I'm Emily Wright Tregaskis. Roy Penberthy (00:25:08): Never heard that name. Edgar Hellum (00:25:08): Wasn't there a Tregaskis in connection with what was left of where Kenny Colwell owns the red brick house? Where the creamery was? There were two stores in there. A milliner store and a butcher shop. Roy Penberthy (00:25:22): Oh? �Edgar Hellum (00:25:22): As I remember it. That's way back. It seems to me there was a Tregaskis in connection with that. Bob Neal (00:25:31): Well, there was a Tregaskis store. Roy Penberthy (00:25:36): I don't, I didn't remember any of that. Bob Neal (00:25:36): That is a ... Let's see that postcard. Roy Penberthy (00:25:39): Will you give it back? Bob Neal (00:25:48): Thought maybe there was a sign on it. Over on Commerce Street. Roy Penberthy (00:25:55): That's me walking up out of the woods there. Bob Neal (00:25:55): That's you. Jack Holzhueter (00:25:57): Really? Roy Penberthy (00:25:58): No. Jack Holzhueter (00:26:01): I was expecting a toddler and, and it's a full grown man. Bob Neal (00:26:05): Well, that's Tregaskis had his store in there. Roy Penberthy (00:26:11): Oh, by gosh I never heard that name before. Bob Neal (00:26:13): Oh, you have too, Tregaskis. Roy Penberthy (00:26:22): �No. I I thought he was trying to say Tregillius. Bob Neal (00:26:23): No, Tregaskis. Alright, thanks. Roy Penberthy (00:26:23): That's right, hand it over. Jack Holzhueter (00:26:23): Okay. Anne and John Roll. R-O-L-L. Or Rule or Roll, we aren't sure. Bob Neal (00:26:28): Never heard of them. Jack Holzhueter (00:26:28): She was Norwegian. Bob Neal (00:26:32): Never heard of them, have you Roy? Roy Penberthy (00:26:32): No. Jack Holzhueter (00:26:33): They were the first at ... They were, they appear in the 1840 census as living in the log house at the west end of the row. Roy Penberthy (00:26:38): Oh? Bob Neal (00:26:38): Never heard of them. Jack Holzhueter (00:26:41): 1850 census I should say. Okay. Joseph Oakes and ... Joseph Knowkes and Richard Oakes. Well, we've done the Oakes, but not the Knowkes. Ever hear of any Knowkes? Bob Neal (00:26:48): No. Roy Penberthy (00:26:48): Oakes, Oakes, yeah. Bob Neal (00:26:50): �Knowkes, I never heard of any Knowkes. Roy Penberthy (00:26:57): No, but Oakes was. Jack Holzhueter (00:26:59): Yeah. Bob Neal (00:26:59): Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:26:59): Okay. John Ray, Henry Ray, John Cole and Felix Cole. They were ... Roy Penberthy (00:27:06): Oh. Bob Neal (00:27:09): Doesn't mean anything to me. Jack Holzhueter (00:27:09): Okay. Presley Spruance, Jacob Raymond, John Hamm and Benjamin Hamm. Bob Neal (00:27:15): No. Jack Holzhueter (00:27:16): No. Well, I'll identify them for you. Joseph Knowkes and Richard Oakes were the persons who who had the preemption rights on uh the Shake Rag lot 192. And they sold those rights to Richard Kislingbury. Now, they ... Jack Holzhueter (00:27:35): Lot 190, the preemption rights were first held by John Ray, Henry Ray, John Cole and Felix Cole. And they sold those to Thomas Martin. Jack Holzhueter (00:27:46): And on lot 191, Presley Spruance, Jacob Raymond, John Hamm and Benjamin Hamm were the preemptors who sold their rights to Thomas Martin for the same property. Jack Holzhueter (00:27:56): Much of that area, the mining properties down in that end of town were in fact not originally bought by the original preemptors. The original preemptors sold or assigned their rights to a bunch of Cornishmen and a bunch of Yankees and other Americans. Um much more than half of the property was originally �claimed by others. Well that, that ends the the who do you know part of this business, thank heavens. We've been on it forever. Um. Edgar Hellum (00:28:34): There's a Homer Ray that lives just down here on the next corner. Roy Penberthy (00:28:40): Yes, I remember that, mm-hmm (affirmative). Edgar Hellum (00:28:42): I don't know if it's any kin. Well, that's interesting with the Kislingbury, they own what is now the park. Roy Penberthy (00:28:47): Yeah. Edgar Hellum (00:28:48): And they had that whole piece as a farm. Roy Penberthy (00:28:50): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Edgar Hellum (00:28:52): And uh I don't think we ever did determine, or we never brought up it in a conversation um the log house barn that we have restored, Polperro, was owned by Kislingbury. Jack Holzhueter (00:29:04): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Edgar Hellum (00:29:04): And supposedly built by Kislingbury, Bill Kislingbury our carpenter said his grandfather built that house. Jack Holzhueter (00:29:09): I'm sure he could've. Edgar Hellum (00:29:10): But whether he did it there first then, and then went over to the park, that we never determined. Dan (00:29:16): Oh, is that, is the house still standing? Jack Holzhueter (00:29:18): That's Polperro. Dan (00:29:20): �Across? Bob Neal (00:29:20): No. Edgar Hellum (00:29:21): No. The one, his old house was destroyed within the park, what was left of it. And there was, there was quite a lot ofBob Neal (00:29:26): Log house. Edgar Hellum (00:29:29): Log parts. Bob Neal (00:29:29): You should've seen it. Edgar Hellum (00:29:29): And then there was the most marvelous double root cellar that they destroyed. Roy Penberthy (00:29:34): Wow. Edgar Hellum (00:29:35): We begged them, we begged them and begged them and begged them to to not destroy it. To keep it even in connection to the park. Roy Penberthy (00:29:40): Yeah. Edgar Hellum (00:29:40): And they didn't see any use in keeping it. Bob Neal (00:29:43): Excuse me, I'm going to step over this wire here. Dan (00:29:44): And why was that? Jack Holzhueter (00:29:51): Oh. Bob Neal (00:29:51): �That's alright. Dan (00:29:51): That they destroyed it? Edgar Hellum (00:29:51): When would that be when they destroyed that building, Bob? Bob Neal (00:29:51): What was it, the log building? Edgar Hellum (00:29:52): Uh over in the park. Bob Neal (00:29:54): Oh, I don't know. Do you remember? Edgar Hellum (00:29:57): Oh well, we brought home the building, uh the log building. And we got some of the rock. Yeah, but let's see what year would that be? It's not that far back. Jack Holzhueter (00:30:11): Yeah? Edgar Hellum (00:30:11): I believe it was in '60. Jack Holzhueter (00:30:15): I would think ... Edgar Hellum (00:30:16): It, in connection with the park and the dance hall they used this as um well, they had the, they had toilet facilities and a caretakers house I think in connection with it. Roy Penberthy (00:30:32): Mm-hmm (affirmative). I think so, yeah. Edgar Hellum (00:30:34): And then they finally decided to destroy all that because then they bought the property up in the back of that. Jack Holzhueter (00:30:39): That must have been a later generation. �Edgar Hellum (00:30:41): And they put a caretakers house up there. And then they destroyed it. And oh we begged them. And then we went over and salvaged what we could of it. Jack Holzhueter (00:30:48): That couldn't have been George Kislingbury though, because George Kislingbury died in Polperro. Dan (00:30:53): No. This would be uhJack Holzhueter (00:30:54): One of his sons. Dan (00:30:54): His son, right. Edgar Hellum (00:30:57): Ah. Jack Holzhueter (00:30:57): Well, we know that because the last Kislingbury daughter, whose name I've forgotten, but who was the ancestor ofDan (00:31:07): Cora, I believe. Jack Holzhueter (00:31:09): Yeah. She was born there and she wasn't very old when her father died. Dan (00:31:12): Ida. Ida. Jack Holzhueter (00:31:13): And then when Mrs. Kislingbury remarried Mr. Pierce, they moved to this part of town. They moved out of the ward altogether with Ida, and left that house and evidently rented it out for a time before they sold it. So I'm pretty sure, since Ida was the youngest and she had always told people who are now living that she was born ... Dan (00:31:47): When you bought the property on Shakerag, did you have it surveyed? Edgar Hellum (00:31:53): Yes. �Dan (00:31:53): And did they, were there survey stakes to mark off the boundaries of the of the lots? Edgar Hellum (00:32:00): Not old ones. Dan (00:32:02): What? They put new ones in? Edgar Hellum (00:32:03): But they put, they put metal pins down. Jack Holzhueter (00:32:06): They did? When when was this? In the '30s? Bob Neal (00:32:09): No. Ernie Clark did the survey for us, from Platteville. He was connected to the mining school over there. And then New Jersey Zinc used him for a surveyor for their mining businesses. Edgar Hellum (00:32:27): We had a complete new survey when we incorporated with the [inaudible 00:32:34]. That was done by another surveyor, and that's when they used the point up at the water tower to determine. Bob Neal (00:32:42): No. They came down from, Neil Jeuck's from the corner of the Vliet Survey. Lot number one. Edgar Hellum (00:32:50): Oh. Bob Neal (00:32:52): Came all the wayDan (00:32:53): Good Lord. Bob Neal (00:32:53): Came way down. Dan (00:32:53): What were they doing? Edgar Hellum (00:32:57): �But then in the old records it said to a rock or to a tree or things like that as it, as many of the old ones did of course. And of course those were long since gone. Um I don't remember the debate about the alleyway. The survey seemed like to us, that we we owned up to the this alley. And we had to leave it there. And then when Harris was gonna move his fence line down, we told him that he couldn't do it, so he moved it back to where the original fence line was. Jack Holzhueter (00:33:28): Well, none of the original deeds that we've read mention any alleyway restrictions. Bob Neal (00:33:34): Well, no. Will said it was never recorded and it was just an understanding. Edgar Hellum (00:33:39): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (00:33:42): Uh I think there were a lot of understandings for the very first about Mineral Point. They come to haunt you 150 years later. Um well, back to this list of questions. When you think of Mineral Point, um certainly the Pendarvis area has been associated ... Oh, back to Dan's question for for Edgar first. Do you know of a relationship between Richard and George Kislingbury? Edgar Hellum (00:34:10): No, I don't. Jack Holzhueter (00:34:11): Okay. Edgar Hellum (00:34:11): Do you Bob? Bob Neal (00:34:12): No. Jack Holzhueter (00:34:12): Alright, let's ... You know that Will was the son of Fred and GeorgiaEdgar Hellum (00:34:17): Telfair in Saint Louis this yearBob Neal (00:34:19): I didn't get in touch with them. Jack Holzhueter (00:34:20): And they didn't either? �Edgar Hellum (00:34:21): No. Bob Neal (00:34:21): They didn't know. No. Francis doesn't know much about the early Kislingburys. There were some Kislingburys over in Linden too. Dan (00:34:31): Right. Roy Penberthy (00:34:32): Yeah. Dan (00:34:32): There's a a descendant, a Frank Kislingbury in California today, who traces his ancestries back to Linden. Bob Neal (00:34:40): Yeah. Dan (00:34:41): But whether Richard Kislingbury of Mineral Point is related to the Linden Kislingburys, that's another question. Bob Neal (00:34:48): Yeah, I can't tell you that. Jack Holzhueter (00:34:49): Well, we also know from the ... To tell you what we do know. That George was ill with TB evidently in the 1850s, that's what killed him in 1870. We found that in Odd Fellows records. Bob Neal (00:35:04): Oh. Jack Holzhueter (00:35:04): Uh and he went to Cornwall and was in the Royal Infirmary in Truro and uh assigned power of attorney to his wife, I think, here in Mineral Point. And so we know when he was gone in '53 he had gone to California and then evidently uh went to England to recover his health. How long he was gone, we don't know. Jack Holzhueter (00:35:29): Uh we also know that he seems to have been a carpenter in addition to being a miner, because in one of the court cases that is now at the collection in Platteville from the courthouse, he did work on a brewery which stood next to Bill Kitto's house where Dyke now has a place. That was an 1840 brewery built- �Edgar Hellum (00:36:03): That early? Jack Holzhueter (00:36:05): It said it was started in '40. So, in January '40, John Philips began a brewery there. Bob Neal (00:36:12): Oh, there is a brewery. That's where they used to go and get straight grain alcohol. Edgar Hellum (00:36:19): Yeah. Um and then John, or um ... Bob Neal (00:36:26): Burt Opie. Edgar Hellum (00:36:26): Burt Opie and and uh ... Bob Neal (00:36:28): Joe Lang. Edgar Hellum (00:36:29): Joe Lang argued about that. Oh yes, they made liquor up there he said, they made liquor up there. And we had never heard about it. And then I said to Troy Eichman, I don't think they ever just told us exactly. Jack Holzhueter (00:36:42): What was there? Edgar Hellum (00:36:42): They didn't call it a brewery, I don't think. Jack Holzhueter (00:36:43): Well, it was probably ... He also had a distillery we think. Bob Neal (00:36:45): Well, that would be the distillery probably. Jack Holzhueter (00:36:48): But in '43 a malthouse was erected. The bills were never properly paid, and Kislingbury's bills for working on the malt house, which were larger than anybody else's bills for that are in there. And so we assume he was a carpenter or construction person of some sort. And there, it seems to have been a wooden structure rather than a masonry structure. �Bob Neal (00:37:09): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (00:37:10): So, that's what makes usBob Neal (00:37:13): I'll have to play over Burt Opie's and Joe's tape. I've got that at the house. And see what they say. They were always arguing. Edgar Hellum (00:37:23): Well, they're just like our story. Joe would tell a story and then when he got through, Burt says it never went that way at all. And so Joe would say, well alright how did it go then? And so Burt would tell his version. Well, basically the same was there. But Joe was a great one to, if he, if you had a story, he could make it better. He always, you know, he enlarged a little bit on his version. Burt Opie was gonna stick a little bit more to the facts, but um ... Jack Holzhueter (00:37:56): Okay. Edgar Hellum (00:37:56): And then the foundry that was down there, that was the other interesting thing that that uhJack Holzhueter (00:38:01): Now, where is this foundry? Uh it keeps coming up and I keep getting lost. Bob Neal (00:38:05): It was, it was right down ... The Wearne house, it was the Wearne Foundry. And the Wearne house is now owned by George Nast up on the hill and down in the valley. Roy Penberthy (00:38:20): Right across the road from Roy Anderson's house. Bob Neal (00:38:26): On Shakerag, and I don't know if it was, it seems to me I have a picture of what's left of the foundry. Edgar Hellum (00:38:32): Well, Joe had a job to sit on the roof when they were firing up to pour the metal and he got, what was it? Five cents a day? Roy Penberthy (00:38:37): Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. �Bob Neal (00:38:37): Yeah. Edgar Hellum (00:38:37): With a bucket of water and a dipper. Jack Holzhueter (00:38:43): Not much money. Well, in Mineral Point, one question that Alice Smith always asks and it's a darn good one, who really ran things? The Yankees, the Cornish or other speaking, other English speaking immigrants? Or was it pretty much uh run democratically? Um when I say ran things, I mean in terms of commerce and politics and government. Bob Neal (00:39:12): I think it was pretty general. I don't think there was anybody that Roy Penberthy (00:39:15): No. I don't think so. Jack Holzhueter (00:39:20): No distinction? What aboutBob Neal (00:39:21): I called on Alice a few years ago out in Laguna Hills. Jack Holzhueter (00:39:25): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:39:26): Had a nice visit with her. Jack Holzhueter (00:39:32): She's rather frail now, and of course her voice is very much affected, but her letters are still just as bright as they ever were. Roy Penberthy (00:39:39): Who was that? Edgar Hellum (00:39:41): Well, you could take, I supposeJack Holzhueter (00:39:43): She was a historian for the society Mr. Penberthy. �Edgar Hellum (00:39:46): The uh prominent families, Cotherns, Crawfords, the Gundrys, umBob Neal (00:39:59): The Ross's. Edgar Hellum (00:40:00): The Ross's. They were, they were the sort of the leading influence in the community. I don't know just how far back this goes, it could go back to the '60s, but it could go back further. I don't know if I know anybody back before the Civil War. Bob Neal (00:40:18): WellJack Holzhueter (00:40:19): What about Judge Strong? Edgar Hellum (00:40:21): Well, yes, Strong. But now they're gonna ... Are they Cornish, Irish, English? Bob Neal (00:40:28): No. Strong came from Vermont. Moses Strong came from Vermont. Let's see, did he? Am I thinking ... No, I'm thinking, I'm thinking in theDan (00:40:41): Connecticut I seem to recall. Bob Neal (00:40:42): Yeah. Edgar Hellum (00:40:42): Yeah, yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:40:45): He's a Yankee at any rate. Bob Neal (00:40:46): Yeah. Edgar Hellum (00:40:46): Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:40:48): �What about Cothren? Well, weBob Neal (00:40:51): I don't know where he came from. Edgar Hellum The Cothren stuff, would it be too hard to run that? Jack Holzhueter (00:40:59): No. We could, we could do that as long as you've given us the names of whom you feel relevant. Edgar Hellum (00:41:05): He was a Yankee, wasn't he? Bob Neal (00:41:06): Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:41:07): Cothren is. Bob Neal (00:41:09): The name that's always intrigued me, I read a text he wrote in '49 and uh a name that's always intrigued me as a heavy property owner here was a George Vanderbilt. And that must have been Eastern interests. Jack Holzhueter (00:41:25): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:41:26): In quarrying andJack Holzhueter (00:41:28): Which part of town? Bob Neal (00:41:33): Out out out of town, and I don't know whether it was over here, I can't remember. Uh he owned a lot of, George Vanderbilt owned a lot of land. It was '49Edgar Hellum (00:41:51): Now, of course, I'm from the outside so just the impressions I've, that I remember over the years, but there always seemed to me that the Cornish were very reticent about being leaders. They were hardworking, poor, as they had five or six days of work and a couple of ales on Saturday night and church on Sunday and meeting house on Wednesday. That was about all they wanted. And I don't �remember any one name that was definitely Cornish in all the things that we've heard or remembered. Uh in fact, I think even when I was in Cornwall that was true. Edgar Hellum (00:42:25): I went up to to Polperro. I went up to see the old house and was taken up there. And the house itself had been destroyed for tax purposes, but the outbuilding was there. Bob Neal (00:42:36): You don't mean Polperro, you mean Pendarvis. Edgar Hellum (00:42:39): Pendarvis, rather, yes. And in the gable of the outbuilding was a clock. Oh, like a town clock that was still running and that was from 1100. I went up to Truro then, to the museum to find out ... They said, they told me that if I went up there they would show me a picture of the old house. Well, uh there again I suppose it would be Pendarves and it's V-E-S instead of I-S. We changed it intentionally. Uh they were definitely Cornish. But there were three villages in the amount of land that they had that were complete. The whole thing was such that they were completely self-sustained. Bob Neal (00:43:24): Oh, it wasEdgar Hellum (00:43:24): They had a leather works, they had a brewery, they had a winery, they had everything all there, and everything all focused, focused up to the the big house on the hill. Bob Neal (00:43:33): The manor house. Edgar Hellum (00:43:34): But all those people were subservient. Well, there evidently had to be a few leading Cornish, you know? Jack Holzhueter (00:43:41): Well, you know, the layout of Mineral Point is suspicious because there is Strong's addition, which is practically begins at practically the same time that Vliet's Survey is done at government insistence. And Harrison's Survey was done at government insistence. And then there's that one little fragment at the lower corner of the, well, that would be the southeast corner of of Strong's addition that maintains the street pattern of Vliet's survey. And in fact in the original deeds to Vliet's Survey we now see that they were made exceptions though except for the properties owned by so and so and so and so. Strong and his partners each owned a fragment of that 40 acre plot that became Strong's addition. Bob Neal (00:44:31): Where was Garret, where does Garret Vliet come from, do you know? Jack Holzhueter (00:44:35): �Yeah. Uh I've forgotten though. He's a Yankee. He comes from the east. I think Pennsylvania. He was hired by the government to do a number of surveys at about this time throughout the state. He also did surveys in Iowa. Edgar Hellum (00:44:49): A a good man that you could get to this, if he could be bothered is A.R. Rowse, a good Cornishman. Jack Holzhueter (00:44:53): Well, he heEdgar Hellum (00:44:58): He's a Cornishman, and Bob got him here and had the lecture down here and all we had to do was to fill the hall and he would do it for free. And we more than filled the theater. Jack Holzhueter (00:45:06): I can imagine. Edgar Hellum (00:45:08): And then he came out to the door afterwards to shake hands with any Cornishman because he emphasized so that they better be proud that they were Cornish. He's such a definite dyed in the wool Cornishman you know? Jack Holzhueter (00:45:19): The Cornish are very history conscious. Edgar Hellum (00:45:22): Oh yes, oh yes. Jack Holzhueter (00:45:24): WellEdgar Hellum (00:45:24): I went up to Ross's house and uh his house wasn't so old, it only went back, I think, to 1300, but it was quite a, quite a country house and stayed ... The shrubbery and the landscaping outside, you knew had been there for centuries you know? But a most interesting person. He was very kind to me. Jack Holzhueter (00:45:44): Alston Moyle of Madison, have you have you ever met him? Bob Neal (00:45:48): No. Jack Holzhueter (00:45:48): Hm, I'm surprised because he's probably in Wisconsin is- �Bob Neal (00:45:55): What's the name? Moyle? Jack Holzhueter (00:45:56): Moyle. Dr. Moyle. He's a veterinarian. What you escaped from Mr. Penberthy. Roy Penberthy (00:46:01): Yeah, that's right. Jack Holzhueter (00:46:03): He's from Racine County, or Kenosha County, a bunch of Cornishmen. But very active in the Cornish Family Society. Well, enough about what I know. Our impression is that the Cornish came to run things, like the bank here came into Cornish hands sooner or later, but that the Yankees when they erected this town set up a village square kind of situation up where the water tower is very much along the New England traditional town plan arrangement. Jack Holzhueter (00:46:42): And the Cornish were given the opportunity to spread out with their irregular, by American lights, house plan arrangements in these strings of houses because the mining lots within the community were surveyed in such a regular fashion to accommodate the law of 1836 which commanded that they not be larger than four acres. And so they were laid out according to geographical convenience. Bob Neal (00:47:16): What about Irvin's addition? Jack Holzhueter (00:47:18): Same darn thing. It looks Yankee. And he was Yankee. Bob Neal (00:47:22): Yeah. Well, that's all over in theJack Holzhueter (00:47:26): Down this way. Bob Neal (00:47:27): Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:47:27): Right. Edgar Hellum (00:47:27): Well, and of course we, when we try to tell the story to people we said well of course the first settlers were not Cornish, they did come, they were Yankees or they came from the east coast. And so we never �did determine, it was sort of conjecture, with some facts, about exactly when the Cornishmen did start or did come at any any number. Well, um one person, in Dodgeville, who did quite a lot of research on families was Gerald Fieldhouse, questioned us about our time. When we suggested that it was '28, '29 and '30, he wasn't so sure. He said he thought we were we were a little bit too early. But then when he went back to Cornwall and found out the shipping lists of the the theDan (00:48:16): Passengers. Bob Neal (00:48:16): Immigration lists. Edgar Hellum (00:48:17): Yeah, passage uh sheets. Then he found out that there were Cornish that came, but the large the large one the large groups that came were later, um '39, '40. Bob Neal (00:48:33): I think uh most of these YorkshiresEdgar Hellum (00:48:34): And the '50s was the largest. Jack Holzhueter (00:48:36): We haven't looked up the Goldsworthys have we Dan? Edgar Hellum (00:48:39): Coming in, I believe. Which is what we finally decided. Jack Holzhueter (00:48:40): Yeah, we find '40s and '50s the most of the people in the Row came in the '40s. Dan (00:48:48): About mid '40s they were they were there. Jack Holzhueter (00:48:49): Mr. Kislingbury comesEdgar Hellum (00:48:54): Well, I think that's when that's when the greatest economic difficulties were going on in Cornwall, which was the reason for the coming of course. Jack Holzhueter (00:48:57): Well- �Edgar Hellum (00:48:57): It reminds me ofBob Neal (00:48:58): Well, Francis Clyma was supposed to be the first one into here in '27. Jack Holzhueter (00:49:00): Yeah. Bob Neal (00:49:06): The first Cornishman. Jack Holzhueter (00:49:08): We're wondering, and so is Mr. Fieldhouse, whether there were not a few isolated Cornish down in Missouri., at Mineral Point, Missouri and Potosi, Missouri in the '20s because already in the '20s Cornishmen were mining in South Africa, in Panama. The Kinsmans, for example, spent a time in Panama and Columbia before coming here. So the Cornish in the '20s and the '30s because, not so much of economic difficulty in Cornwall, but because industrial revolution had created the steam engine. Edgar Hellum (00:49:43): Ah, yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:49:44): And it grew, for every man in the mines, 10 had to man pumps. Well, they invented the steam engine pump. They could free the men on the pumps. That meant there were too many people and so they could go elsewhere and mine. Edgar Hellum (00:50:02): Hm. Jack Holzhueter (00:50:02): And the Cornish were hired by the Colonialists to go all over. Bob Neal (00:50:08): Well, the Joplin mines that sent up Dodge and a lot of the followers were not, were the first settlers Jack Holzhueter (00:50:22): I know that, but I'm curious to know whether there may have been Cornish in Missouri let's say three or four years earlier than they came to Mineral Point? Bob Neal (00:50:33): Was Schoolcraft any help on that? �Jack Holzhueter (00:50:37): Not yet. He wasn't. I've, we've looked at that and Mr. Fieldhouse has done some looking at that and we haven't reached any conclusion. What we have to do is to get into Missouri local records in the courthouses down there and also any kind of early Missouri census material that we don't know about yet, as we have for the territorial censuses here. And we'll, if they're there we'll find out. Edgar Hellum (00:51:00): William R. Smith's uh diary tells about, very definitely, tells where the various smelters were. Jack Holzhueter (00:51:05): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Edgar Hellum (00:51:05): The small smelters. There's quite a lot of that informationJack Holzhueter (00:51:08): That's '30s. Edgar Hellum (00:51:08): But I don't remember specifically that he tells about, if he says anything about the Cornish or when when they came. Jack Holzhueter (00:51:16): Yeah. Edgar Hellum (00:51:16): He was here in what '30, that that was '36? Jack Holzhueter (00:51:16): '36, '37. Edgar Hellum (00:51:16): And there was quite a lot of activity in '36. Jack Holzhueter (00:51:23): Oh yes. Edgar Hellum (00:51:23): Most of them, that's when we get Gerald. Jack Holzhueter (00:51:25): A great deal. After after the uh region was made into a territory, organized as a territory, it became- �Bob Neal (00:51:35): Well, you know the uh ... Jack Holzhueter (00:51:43): All we're doing is plugging in a lamp here. Okay. Go on. You were saying? Bob Neal (00:51:47): I don't know what I was going to say. Jack Holzhueter (00:51:56): But very early, we know that Mr. Fran uh Mr. uh uh Martin was here in about '30. Right. Bob Neal (00:52:04): Oh, I was gonna say Caleb Atwater in his book of Journey from Prairie du Chien to Washington, published in, I think, Cincinnati in 1833, maybe it was before that. Well, anyway, a copy of it's in the Mineral Point Room. It says that when he went through the area there were piles of copper ore waiting to be smelted, and that's '27. Jack Holzhueter (00:52:37): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:52:39): So uh there was activity, a lot of activity here. If they were mining copper that early a date. Edgar Hellum (00:52:44): Well, you know when Bill Kislingbury said that when they celebrated the centennial in '27 he said they were three years late. Bob Neal (00:52:55): No. Kislingbury didn't say that. Samuel Hood said that. Edgar Hellum (00:52:58): Oh. They should've had '24. Bob Neal (00:53:08): Samuel Hood was a grandson of Matilda Hood. Edgar Hellum (00:53:11): And John Hood. Bob Neal (00:53:11): A grandson of Matilda Hood, and she was the first white woman to settle here. �Dan (00:53:12): Right. Jack Holzhueter (00:53:15): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Then we we have plenty of records of ... There's this one Cornishman who came out here in '32 just within a few days time to serve in the Blackhawk regiments. They were trickling in slowly at a rather early date, but I think that it's post '36 when the rush comes. Um in politics in Mineral Point is there a distinction? Aha, Mr. Penberthy's eyes light up. Uh is there a distinction between Republicans and Democrats whether you were a Yankee or a Cornishman? Or can a Cornishman have been anything? Bob Neal (00:54:00): The Cornishmen could've been anything. Jack Holzhueter (00:54:02): What were they mostly do you think? Here in town who won? Bob Neal (00:54:09): I wouldn't know, Roy, whether because aren't they ... You think of it now as being Republican. It was Whigs wasn't it? Roy Penberthy (00:54:20): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (00:54:20): Whigs until '53. Bob Neal (00:54:23): Whigs until '53. Dan (00:54:23): 1953? Jack Holzhueter (00:54:27): 1853. They didn't stay that long. Bob Neal (00:54:28): There's a interesting journal interesting journal on the trip from Prairie du Chien to Washington City by a missionary by the name of Dentan, D-E-N-T-A-N. Roy Penberthy (00:54:48): Oh. �Bob Neal (00:54:49): And he spent five days here in Mineral Point. Dodgeville was nothing, but consisted of five houses. It was mostly inhabited by drunkards. He said that was right up at Fieldhouse. Dan (00:55:03): Oh, I think he likes that. Bob Neal (00:55:06): Then he gets a kick outta ... Edgar Hellum (00:55:14): Well, the Canoe Voyage up the Minny Sotor that that man certainly didn't have much regard for anything that he saw in Mineral Point. Jack Holzhueter (00:55:20): Featherstonehaugh, Fanshaw, as they say. Well, what is the ... Mineral Point uh you say Republican today. When did it become Republican? When you were kids Mr. Penberthy and Mr. Neal, what was it like? Bob Neal (00:55:36): I never was interested in politics enough toRoy Penberthy (00:55:39): I'm that same way, yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:55:42): Really? Roy Penberthy (00:55:42): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Honestly. Jack Holzhueter (00:55:44): Really? Bob Neal (00:55:44): I don't think they cared one way or another, like Roy and I. Edgar Hellum (00:55:48): I don't know. If you go back to the old newspaper records you ought to be able to determine that. Jack Holzhueter (00:55:53): Oh yes, we could. We just wanted your impressions of- �Edgar Hellum (00:55:57): I don't know. Strangely enough, I don't remember any party politics coming into it. Jack Holzhueter (00:56:00): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Edgar Hellum (00:56:00): Sort of I have a feeling that it was stronger Republican and gradually was changing to to be more Dem, more of a Democratic area of the state. You think so? Roy Penberthy (00:56:13): I don't know. Bob Neal (00:56:16): I don't know, Edgar. I wouldn'tEdgar Hellum (00:56:19): Well, like with Lancaster and Platteville and Mineral Point, it seems like, to me, that in the last, since I've been here uh that it's had tendency to change, which is too late. But I sort of have that feeling that it was Republican before that, but I'm not sure. Bob Neal (00:56:37): I don't think it was identified as Republican or Democrat. Edgar Hellum (00:56:43): No. Then I have to think back when I was a youngster in Stoughton. If anybody asked me that I wouldn't be able to say was it was it predominately Democratic or Republican. Jack Holzhueter (00:56:53): Well, Wisconsin is very special because of the progressive difficulty too sinceEdgar Hellum (00:56:58): Oh yes, I can hear my granddad talking about the La Follettes. Jack Holzhueter (00:57:01): Did he like them? Edgar Hellum (00:57:03): Oh yeah, he had big respect and he went very often to hear to him speak. Jack Holzhueter (00:57:03): Mm-hmm (affirmative). �Edgar Hellum (00:57:07): But he didn't agree with him because when they were gonna build the capitol and they were gonna spend all that money, he said he's out of his mind and could you imagine. I forget what it was, two or three million dollars that they were gonna spend, and I don't remember what it did end up to cost. But he had a great respect for him as an individual, but not not with hisJack Holzhueter (00:57:26): He spent too much money huh? I see. Well, were the progressives active down here Mr. Neal and Mr. Penberthy? Bob Neal (00:57:35): I can't tell you. I wouldn't hazard a guess. Roy Penberthy (00:57:38): I wouldn't either. No. Jack Holzhueter (00:57:40): Okay. Edgar Hellum (00:57:40): What was Mr. Gundry? Was he a Republican or a Democrat? Bob Neal (00:57:45): I never knew. I think he wasEdgar Hellum (00:57:45): Of course there was a time when you didn't want to declare yourself. I don't know why? Jack Holzhueter (00:57:49): Oh no, Wisconsin is very proud not having to declare citizen, uh having had citizens declare their party affiliation. Independence is the word here. Uh okay, enough about politics, that that didn't get very far. Jack Holzhueter (00:58:06): Besides mining, what would you say are the economic bases for Mineral Point? Bob Neal (00:58:11): Farming. Roy Penberthy (00:58:12): Farming yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:58:16): Which was more important in your book? �Roy Penberthy (00:58:19): Farming, yeah. I would say. Bob Neal (00:58:21): Farming, in later years. MiningEdgar Hellum (00:58:25): I'd rather work it for 50 cents a day then a dollar a day in the or out of the mine. Who was the old man that said that? He'd rather work for 50 cents a day in the mine than to be a dollar a day and be a farmer. Bob Neal (00:58:39): Well, that was Copeland's take on that stuff. Edgar Hellum (00:58:41): Oh yes. Jack Holzhueter (00:58:43): Now, you you made references to farms and practically on top of Pendarvis. Uh they seem, there's a corner of farmland that seems to come down into that intersection. How does this happen? That's very unusual in Wisconsin. Usually, farms don't impinge upon villages quite that, or cities, quite that directly. Edgar Hellum (00:59:12): Well, I would ... My first reaction to that would be that quite as mining was uncertain, or if they were gonna strike a vein of lead, but farming was was much more definite in the way of income. And then, of course, with the grazing lands I'm not sure how far back cattle raising goes, but um ... And then as the land petered out if they did have a mine on a piece of land, then when the mine was done, then what else? Of course then it was the farming. Like the Ross's and the Harris's, any number of farms that are still close to Mineral Point are almost, some of them sitting in the city limits. Roy Penberthy (00:59:55): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (00:59:56): There are some farms within the city limits. Edgar Hellum (00:59:57): That's right. Jack Holzhueter (00:59:57): Not common in Wisconsin. Although Janesville has the same situation. It was very, it was platted as a very large place, too large uh much of it was farmed quite like ... Uh when you were boys here, did you work on farms ever? Were you asked to be hired hands or did you always have to avoid butchering and the likes? �Bob Neal (01:00:18): I always worked on a farm because it was summers. Jack Holzhueter (01:00:20): You did? Bob Neal (01:00:21): Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (01:00:23): Whose farm and where? Bob Neal (01:00:24): East of town. An Irishman by name of Walsh. Roy Penberthy (01:00:33): Dave Walsh? Bob Neal (01:00:35): Yeah. Dave, there was a large family. There was Dave and Emma and Ruth or Rose and Sarah and and I think Pete Walsh was who I worked for. Roy Penberthy (01:00:52): Grandfather had a farm, but I never worked on it. I was too young I guess. Bob Neal (01:00:55): Well, you're lucky. Jack Holzhueter (01:00:57): What'd you do when you worked on the farm Mr. Neal? Roy Penberthy (01:01:00): Led the horse and the hayfork. Bob Neal (01:01:00): Yeah, I did that. That was one of my things, drag the horse on the hayfork. Roy Penberthy (01:01:10): Yeah. Edgar Hellum (01:01:10): Well, of course, his family weren't farmers. My my family were farmers and I started on the farm when I was eight. I dropped tobacco when I was eight years old. And I was I was so small that they didn't think I �would, I'd fall off the tobacco planter. I worked on a farm from from the time I was eight until all the way through high school. Roy Penberthy (01:01:30): Wow. Edgar Hellum (01:01:31): But it was just, my my granddad had a little piece of land, about 10 acres out on the edge of Stoughton where we raised tobacco. And that's where I was commissioned. Jack Holzhueter (01:01:40): Into farming, but you were a boy you lived in Stoughton? Edgar Hellum (01:01:44): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (01:01:45): But in in the community itself? Edgar Hellum (01:01:46): But because my grandfather had this piece of land, that was the initiation to farming. And then ... � Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pendarvis Interview - Part II (transcript) https://mineralpointlibraryarchives.org/omeka/files/original/ab199608244060a90f77bbbb144dd228.pdf 22963aab53728187c58530f6c790a92e PDF Text Text Edgar Hellum (00:01): To be a city boy. I was, I was a farmer boy and I decided I didn't want to be a city slicker, and then my granddad said, but that's the hardest way to make a living. Oh there's so many that I used to go down to the shoe factory. Wouldn't you like to have a grocery store or a hardware store or cozy shop? I'll help you to get started. He wanted it to be, he quit when he was 40 because they had such poor farms and he finally got a good farm with the help of a brother and they were very successful. In seven years. My granddad decided to retire and go to town and at 40 he did that. And my grandmother never, never let him get that out of his mind. Just when we were making money, he came to town because he wanted to be a business man and so he thought, well that's what I would like to be. Edgar Hellum (00:41): I should be a businessman. Well, his uncle, or his son, was in the shoe factory and had a successful business and had no male heir, so I was supposed to inherit the shoe factory, so I had to live that down. That's why I struggled. So, and then when I finally bought, when I finally came home from Chicago, my granddad said, well, now what?.And I said, well, I think I'm going to buy a house. He said, well, your grandson wants to buy a house. I guess. She said, have you got any money in? I said, no, not very much. Well, what are you going to do? And I said, well, I'm going to go down to the shoe factory. If I give up my uncle will always take me in. So I finally found a house in Cooksville and the county was going to sell it for $200. A house built, again about '46 or '47 and I came up, finally got the house bought from the county and paid cash for it. Edgar Hellum (01:32): I came home practically out of my mind at first, told my granddad, I said, well, you got to come out, I bought a house. I bought a house. Well what did you buy? And I said, well, come on and get in the car. We went to see and he looked at me, said, well you didn't buy much. And I said, no. I said, it looks pretty bad. But I've looked it all over and I said, it can be put back again. Well how much did you pay? And I said, I paid $200. So he kind of laughed and he said, well I guess you didn't pay too much. He said, how much are the taxes? And I said, they're a dollar 80 cents a year. Edgar Hellum (02:05): I figured it couldn't be taken away from me as long as I can pay the dollar 80 cents. Well that was a start. That's almost the start of Pendarvis, you see. Because then I came over here looking for old building materials to restore the house and met. And then we got together and Bob wanted to restore a house. I just, I wasn't a carpenter either. Y. Jack Holzhueter (02:27): You weren't a carpenter? Edgar Hellum (02:28): I liked to, that's the funny thing. My granddad, I don't know why they didn't say, why don't you be a carpenter? Because they were, we had, we had a pile of boards and the nail and the hammer and the saw and my granddad, I would say, well, can I build, can I build a little house? Well what are you going to build? And I said, well, I'm going to build a hut. So I made one on the side of the house? [inaudible] I had to take that down pretty quick. That was pretty much of an eyesore. Then he let me build one on the side of the barn. But then after it stood so long, then I had to take it down. I had to take it all apart, pull �all the nails and put the boards back again. I would have been a carpenter. I think I would have made a good carpenter. Jack Holzhueter (03:02): Obviously you are a good carpenter, you, everybody says so. Edgar Hellum (03:06): Then I wanted to do rock work, and there wasn't much rock work done in Stoughton. And I had quite a time to find a quarry out near Cooksville for the Cooksville house. Finally bought some rock from the quarry. But then I came over here of course and when I got together with old Charlie Curtis, I apprenticed to him and he was a good teacher. He'd been up at Frank Lloyd Wright's, you see. He sent me, he let me do a whole row of rock. Now stand back, my son, and take a look. And I said, Oh my, it looks fine. Well it's not right, he said. So then he'd go and change a stone or two. And so I said, How do you know that? And he said, Well after you've laid rock for 40 years, he said, it just sort of comes natural. And I said but, there must be certain rules and regulations. Well then he told me definitely about breaking the joints. There again, your own pattern of how you wanted it. He liked to have jumpers and I kind of liked to lay it more like random ashler. If I'd get a all six inch or all eight inch or all 10 inch and he would sort of like to break the, break the pattern. Jack Holzhueter (04:17): Have it rougher looking. Oh, back to agriculture and Mineral Point. Mr Penberthy, you say you never had to work on a farm but your grandfather had a. Roy Penberthy (04:27): My grandfather had a farm. Jack Holzhueter (04:27): Was that his living? Roy Penberthy (04:29): Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (04:31): Is that your mother's father, Roy Penberthy (04:33): Yes. Uh huh. Jack Holzhueter (04:33): But they never made you go out there? Roy Penberthy (04:34): No, I was, I was the youngest, next to the youngest of the family, I guess. Jack Holzhueter (04:37): �Spoiled rotten. I'd never heard of a grandson of a farmer who didn't somehow have to, you managed to avoid that all those years. You were lucky. Um, when, what kinds of processing plants for agricultural products are there in Mineral Point? Any? Bob Neal (04:58): Well, there was an old grist mill, originally. It was for grinding grain, flour. And uh, Jack Holzhueter (05:10): When you were boys, was there a flour mill in town that you would Bob Neal (05:13): Yeah. Grabers had one, didn't they? Grabers? Roy Penberthy (05:17): Well, are you thinking, uh, in town. I was thinking about the one down there in Schimming's barn, wasn't that a, didn't they have a mill in there? In Doc Schimming's barn? Bob Neal (05:36): Right next to it. Between there and the Foundry, Roy Penberthy (05:39): The foundry'd be right up the hill a little bit. That'd be Graber's. Edgar Hellum (05:42): Huh? [inaudible] I never knew [inaudible] What street was this? Approximately Roy Penberthy (05:48): Commerce. Commerce Street. Jack Holzhueter (05:52): And did you go there to buy flour? Roy Penberthy (05:59): No I didn't. Jack Holzhueter (05:59): Did they, was it a local brand? Roy Penberthy (06:01): Yeah. I think so. Bob Neal (06:02): I don't know much about it. Do you? �Roy Penberthy (06:03): No, I Jack Holzhueter (06:06): You bought your food at Jeuck's I suppose. [Inaudible] Edgar Hellum (06:11): Oh gosh. We had an old flour mill over in Stoughton. Man, I can still remember they were on the river and then they moved up from the river when they didn't use water power and they had, I don't know that I can remember the sack, but you bought flour in a cloth sack. Jack Holzhueter (06:31): Hundred pound sacks Edgar Hellum (06:31): that had a definite label on it. I'm not sure. Jack Holzhueter (06:34): Ubiquitous in Wisconsin. I was wondering whether it occurred here in Mineral Point. It did to some degree, but it wasn't a terribly popular thing. Uh, characterize the farms around here. Were are they mostly dairy farms, diversified dairy farming, not so much grain growing. Bob Neal (06:54): Enough for their own use perhaps, Jack Holzhueter (06:57): But not as a cash item. Was a lot of rye or buckwheat grown around here? Bob Neal (07:03): No. Jack Holzhueter (07:08): Was there a prominent local market for currants and the kinds of foods that, uh, the Cornish are said to like, I know your tea cakes require currants. Bob Neal (07:21): No, Jack Holzhueter (07:22): They don't require currants? Bob Neal (07:24): They do require currants. �Edgar Hellum (07:24): There are many, there are many black current bushes on the old properties and the Cornish That's a favorite of the Cornish. Bob Neal (07:33): They're red currants, Edgar. Edgar Hellum (07:36): Pardon? Bob Neal (07:36): They're red currants. Edgar Hellum (07:36): No, the black current and the black current was blotted out because it carried the host fruit pine [inaudible] Jack Holzhueter (07:41): Same as the same as gooseberry. Edgar Hellum (07:44): You were supposed to destroy the black currant. And then the gooseberry, but the gooseberry of course grew wild. Jack Holzhueter (07:50): And that's where every time we got a pasture we got gooseberry. Edgar Hellum (07:52): And then everybody had a plum tree, a miner plum tree. Every backyard had to have a miner plum tree for plum preserves. Jack Holzhueter (08:01): But they did. But these were not cash crops. These were basically household. Edgar Hellum (08:06): Yes. Jack Holzhueter (08:07): Items. Um was there a dairy plant in town that did anything special with cheese? Butter? Why you say there was a creamery right where you you were born. You had nothing, whatever to do with that. Harry Nohr just painted people, black people with white stripes. Did Harry Nohr work at that creamery? Roy Penberthy (08:29): �Yes. Jack Holzhueter (08:30): What did he do for [inaudible]? Roy Penberthy (08:34): He was a butter maker. Edgar Hellum (08:35): He learned butter making when he was very young. 14 or 15, he had to go out to work and got to be quite a butter maker. Jack Holzhueter (08:40): Yes. He always used to tell me yes. And churning those huge vats. He says that the easiest thing he ever did was fight in World War II. Regular hours, quite healthy. One of his favorite yarns, as you probably know. Um, was that the only dairy plant in town or were there competing ones? Bob Neal (09:04): Um, I don't know. Oh, do you remember that creamery up there? Roy Penberthy (09:11): By Jail Alley? Yeah. Bob Neal (09:11): Yeah. [inaudible] Ooh, Spooner. Spooner. When did James Spooner [inaudible] [inaudible] Jack Holzhueter (09:28): Where was your family house, Mr. Neal. Bob Neal (09:31): Maiden street. Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (09:40): Up on the Hill and on a main street. Not too far from here. We went on Maiden street to look at it. I know where it is, Edgar Hellum (09:47): How long did you live on Front street? You were born on Maiden Street? Bob Neal (09:54): Yeah. Edgar Hellum (09:56): How long did you live there until you were how old? �Bob Neal (09:58): I don't know, we moved down across from Aunt Claire's house, Roy Penberthy (10:04): Who's Aunt Clara. Bob Neal (10:09): Vivian. Right across from her. Mrs. Stansmore Vivian. Roy Penberthy (10:10): Oh, yeah. Jack Holzhueter (10:16): Tell us about the Vivian's. It's a prominent name and they're associated with so many things here. Roy Penberthy (10:22): Vivian? Bob Neal (10:22): Typical Cornish. Jack Holzhueter (10:24): Well, doctors, were not typical Cornish, according to your characterization. Bob Neal (10:28): The spelling was, Oh, it was V I. V. I. A. N. but the Cornish spelled it V. Y. V. Y. E. N. Roy Penberthy (10:38): Oh, I didn't know that. Jack Holzhueter (10:42): How did they become doctors. I know John Vivian, one of the early Cornish here, was a doctor. Was this the same family? Bob Neal (10:50): Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (10:51): And you're, of that tribe.? Bob Neal (10:56): Well, offshoot, offshoot of that they married into the Neals. And Clara Neal married Stansmore Vivian [inaudible]. �Roy Penberthy (11:11): And they had a son, Stansmore, who was a doctor, didn't they? Bob Neal (11:11): Yeah. Uh huh. Neal Vivian is still living. Roy Penberthy (11:16): Is he, really? Where's he live? Bob Neal (11:19): Out in California. He's way up in his nineties. Jack Holzhueter (11:25): So how many boys is that ? Two or three? Bob Neal (11:27): Three . Stansmore, John. John Vivian was John Tucker's age. Roy Penberthy (11:36): John and Neal and Stansmore. John was the one I had forgotten. Was he the oldest one? Bob Neal (11:42): No, Neal. Roy Penberthy (11:42): Neal was the oldest. Edgar Hellum (11:45): Was there a Vivian drug store? Roy Penberthy (11:46): Yeah, Bob Neal (11:47): He founded the drug store. Roy Penberthy (11:48): Where Ivey's is today. Bob Neal (11:51): Pulford had the other one. Yeah. Roy Penberthy (11:56): �We used to have three drug stores. Jack Holzhueter (11:58): So the Vivian's were sort of the medical family for the Cornish, or did they treat everybody under the sun? Bob Neal (12:03): Well, I suppose they treated everybody. Uh, Vivian drugstore, was, well, Ivey, Charlie Ivey bought it. Edgar Hellum (12:17): When you went to the barber that you tell about when you were real small, did they have, um, did they do bloodletting? Bob Neal (12:27): No! Edgar Hellum (12:29): Gotten away from that by that time? Bob Neal (12:32): I don't know they ever, Edgar Hellum (12:33): They had leeches or should the barber did that? Bob Neal (12:36): Well, yes, but that's back in the dark ages. Jack Holzhueter (12:44): Well, yes, I know. You, you, when did the first automobile come to Mineral Point? Do you remember? Roy Penberthy (12:48): Oh, 1912? Bob Neal (12:52): Dad had a white Buick. Roy Penberthy (12:55): Did he? Bob Neal (12:56): With the two bucket seats, gears and everything strapped to the side of it and the acetylene tank on the side. �Roy Penberthy (13:06): Yeah, that's true. For the line. Do you know what, when we got our first car, if you wanted to go for a ride, we'd go out to the brewery and get a drink out of the spring and come back home, one mile. That was a ride. And if you wanted to go for a long ride, we'd go out to the Oak Park cheese factory, out there, three miles. That was a long ride. Jack Holzhueter (13:28): And, and you made your living from renting cars. Roy Penberthy (13:35): Yes, hearses and ambulances. Jack Holzhueter (13:35): What kind of car was your first car? Roy Penberthy (13:38): Maxwell. Jack Holzhueter (13:40): Oh, Jack Benny's car. I still [inaudible]. Then when did you go from, uh, in, in your hearse business from the horses to vehicles. Roy Penberthy (13:57): It was in the twenties I guess it was the, I wasn't in the horse or hearse service. Mine was the car with the car. That would be around the late, very late twenties Jack Holzhueter (14:10): But until that time they actually continued to use horse-drawn funeral coaches and what-not? Roy Penberthy (14:16): No, no but I wasn't in that. I wasn't in that horse and the first hearse business was by somebody else, Aubrey Dunn, and I bought him out there around 1930 right in there. Edgar Hellum (14:31): But you had carriages and horses. Roy Penberthy (14:33): Oh yeah. Father had that. Bob Neal (14:36): When did he notice a significant decline in his business at Mineral Point. When did you buy the auto Roy Penberthy (14:41): �Oh, about that time when they were transferring from horses to car. Jack Holzhueter (14:44): In the 20s, what did you decide to do then? Roy Penberthy (14:49): What, Jack Holzhueter (14:50): What became his business after that? Roy Penberthy (14:53): Well, I continued. I kept [inaudible] God, I kept getting bigger and bigger. I couldn't stand it anymore. I was doing all the maintenance work on these three Cadillac torches and doing all that, washing, polishing. I was the receptionist, the bookkeeper, the whole ball of wax, you know, and uh, keeping my overhead down. I was able to make pretty good, uh, Jack Holzhueter (15:16): but your father, when, when this transformation from horses to, uh, automobiles came, what, did he just retire or, Oh, he didn't go into another line of work. He didn't set up a garage or something of that sort. Were you, was yours the only livery in town? Roy Penberthy (15:36): Yes, uh huh. No, not the horse livery. There was about three of them. Bob Neal (15:39): Brown's. Roy Penberthy (15:40): Browns, two Browns and Harker, four. Mr. Harker. Jack Holzhueter (15:48): Now when the livery business, which you must remember from boyhood at least,. What , You rented out things, Roy Penberthy (15:59): The undertaker owned the hearse and kept it at our place and we furnished the driver and the team. That's right. Jack Holzhueter (16:03): Okay, but that wasn't your whole business? Roy Penberthy (16:05): No, �Jack Holzhueter (16:06): Not enough people die to take care of a whole livery stable. Roy Penberthy (16:08): No, that's true. Jack Holzhueter (16:09): But who else runs horses? How does this work? Roy Penberthy (16:14): Well, uh, father had a lot of horses to rent out. Jack Holzhueter (16:20): To hire Bob Neal (16:21): Riding and driving horses. Edgar Hellum (16:24): Well, if a salesman came to town would the salesman rent a buggy. and a horse from your dad? Roy Penberthy (16:27): Yeah, when they first started, some guy, a salesman rented their best horse and buggy and uh, for several days and then he said to him, uh, I might not be back tonight, but uh, don't worry about it. And he stole the horse and buggy. In those days the communications was very poor, you know, and they couldn't find him. Jack Holzhueter (16:56): Well, he's long gone by now. Roy Penberthy (16:57): Yeah, he had a good start. Jack Holzhueter (16:59): Or did what would be, did you own your own horses when you were a boy Mr. Neal or did you rent from Mr Penberthy? Roy Penberthy (17:07): Now to get to Dodgeville I'd get a dollar and a half Jack Holzhueter (17:14): How did you get around �Bob Neal (17:19): On the train? I wasn't confined. Well, where? Do you mean in town here? Bob Neal (17:24): Well, if you wanted to go out, you walked. Edgar Hellum (17:28): You tell about the train trip to Dubuque, Jack Holzhueter (17:34): But I mean for a local trip, say we're going to go work on this. How did you get off of that farm when you went off to [inaudible]. Bob Neal (17:45): Morris Proctor ran a stage from Mineral Point to Dodgeville. Roy Penberthy (17:52): I had that too later. Jack Holzhueter (17:56): Horse drawn? Roy Penberthy (17:56): Both. When the roads were bad, there's no snow removal. There were days when I'd have to turn the team about. Jack Holzhueter (18:05): But you drove them yourself. Roy Penberthy (18:07): I remember one year there was over a hundred days sleighing and I never missed a trip. Jack Holzhueter (18:10): Between here and Dodgeville. How many passengers would you take on a. Roy Penberthy (18:15): Nine. All the three seats, covered wagon and I was on a dash board out in front. I could touch you, the horse and the foot, loaded both ways all the time. There used to be a traveling man come down from Madison, Toby DeVias, his name was always crazy about the girls, you know. And he said, Roy, you got any girls going over this morning? I said Yeah I have to pick one up on the way out. So he said put me in the back seat, put her back here with me. I said okay. And he straightened up himself. How do I look? You look swell, Toby. This lady came out and she had one crutch. I introduced them, you know and if looks could kill I'd have been a dead duck. �Jack Holzhueter (18:59): You used the bobsled even after automobiles came here because the roads, road conditions would require, this continued until when, what was the last year you'd say you used the sled? Roy Penberthy (19:21): Uh, around 25, I think 1925, right in there. Edgar Hellum (19:27): Oh my. As a kid, I can remember the horse drawn conveyance from the Depot uptown. Jack Holzhueter (19:33): In Stoughton? Edgar Hellum (19:33): In Stoughton. And then I can remember Ole somebody or other and he got a bus. Oh, my was that something because you didn't ride in the horse drawn one anymore. Ole, Ole, can't remember his name. Oh, what a privilege to ride in that gas, gas machine. No, but somebody must've had the transportation from the Depot here uptown. Roy Penberthy (20:04): We did. We did. Edgar Hellum (20:04): Oh, you did. Jack Holzhueter (20:04): You met every train? Roy Penberthy (20:07): Yes, uh huh. Late train night. And then you had to collect their bags. Jack Holzhueter (20:09): And you deposited people at the door. It wasn't just a central place where you drop them all off and they fended for themselves. Roy Penberthy (20:17): No, no. We had telephone number one for years. And then when they went to dial, I called up the chief operator Helen Kinsmen, you know, Helen, I'm sick. She said What's the matter. I said we could lose our telephone number one. And she said, well, I'm losing my telephone number and I'm losing my job too, she said. Well, you're in worse shape than I am. I can't complain. Edgar Hellum (20:43): �[inaudible] who was the man that did all the street lights with the horse and buggy and he got dirty, how much did he get a year? $8 a year or something. Bob Neal (20:53): Did Kid Day have anything to do with lighting the street lights. Kid Day. Roy Penberthy (21:01): No, that's not the name that I was trying to think of. You mean lighting the arc lights don't you? Let me, let me, Bob Neal (21:07): No, the old lights. Roy Penberthy (21:09): I don't know. Edgar Hellum (21:14): We have a record of that somewhere. This man that had the, Roy Penberthy (21:17): What did you say was the name? Bob Neal (21:20): He doesn't know. Edgar Hellum (21:21): Oh, I don't know. Bob says he doesn't know. I don't remember that either. But we've got the story somewhere. The man had the team and a horse and a wagon and buggy, or little cart, and went around and did the street lights, all the street lights in town, cleaned the chimneys and filled them and got like $8 a year or something. Just such a ridiculous price. But I suppose that was, it could have been a part time job. Jack Holzhueter (21:51): I hope that it was! Now if the Neals, wanted to take the train. Did they just take their bag in hand and walk down there or did they call Mr Penberthy Roy Penberthy (22:01): They called and I'd come up to the house and take them to the depot and put them on the train. One time I took a girl to Dodgeville to get a job and she didn't get her job so I didn't get no money for the trip. And then couple of years later she called up, she wanted to go to the Depot and she had a baby and she had something to eat in the bag and she gave me $5 to go and buy her ticket. And it wasn't enough. I had to put up my own money with it and I didn't charge her anything for the trip to the Depot or didn't get my trip she owed to Dodgeville, you know. The poor thing was so alone, you know, with this baby and I couldn't do do anything. �Jack Holzhueter (22:44): But you said you did all right, anyway. What, did you charge other people too much? Roy Penberthy (22:51): That was pretty good. With the tools I had to work with, I did, I'm pretty good. Jack Holzhueter (22:59): And then you bought Cadillac hearses. When did the, the drayage to and from the Depot finally die out. When did you stop meeting trains and. Roy Penberthy (23:08): Oh, gosh. When was that? I don't, I don't remember. Do you? Edgar Hellum (23:22): Well when we met you you used to be baggage man, didn't you? '37, '38? Roy Penberthy (23:23): Was it that late? Edgar Hellum (23:23): After we came here you were still. Roy Penberthy (23:31): Was I? Edgar Hellum (23:31): Trains were still. We took the train once from Janesville up here. Roy Penberthy (23:35): Oh, Edgar Hellum (23:36): Daisy picker. Took hours. Roy Penberthy (23:39): Used to call the operator, then they'd lay on some steam. Then they'd slow it down, and chug chug along and then work up the steam again and then You could actually get out and pick flowers. Jack Holzhueter (23:54): Did you ever take the train Mr Penberthy or did you always drive the horses? Roy Penberthy (23:57): Oh, yes. I took the train to Janesville to the races all the time. �Jack Holzhueter (23:59): There were races at Janesville? Roy Penberthy (24:01): Yes. Uh huh. Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (24:05): What kind of races? Roy Penberthy (24:05): Harness races. Standard bred horses. Jack Holzhueter (24:08): Was that the kind of horse that interested you most of your life? Roy Penberthy (24:11): No, American Saddlebreds I had, gaited horses, Edgar Hellum (24:16): I had a good riding horse for many years. New Speaker (24:19): So, um, another kid and I went to Darlington fair one time. I remember we were coming out the gate we bought a big sack of over-ripe fruit. We pooled our money, you know to buy this big sack of over ripe fruit and we get to the depot and the guy says the train is late so we went uptown to walk around when this lady what he said and we had to run to get the train, you know, and the train pulled out we forgot our fruit hidden under the platform at the Depot. So that was our standing joke all through the years, you know one of these first days, we have to go down and get our fruit. It was over ripe when we put it there. Jack Holzhueter (24:52): did you ever go down to the Darlington to see the races or the fair Mr Neal? Bob Neal (24:56): No. Jack Holzhueter (24:56): What did you do for entertainment when you were a boy? He seems to have been through and under the Depot steps. What were the games you played or things you did? Roy Penberthy (25:09): We used to take our horses down to Darlington, show horses, and we'd be down there all week and as soon as we got the horses put away. I'd walk to the post office and write my mother a card that we �arrived safely. We thought we were a long way from home, 15 miles and she looked forward to getting that card. Jack Holzhueter (25:26): And how long would it take that card to get here? Roy Penberthy (25:29): Well we'd mail it that night and she'd get it the next afternoon. Jack Holzhueter (25:34): Now, when you were a lad, Mr Neal, what were your principal interests in studying or games or whatever. Bob Neal (25:43): And I just wanted to be busy with school and not every kid did. Jack Holzhueter (25:51): Were you a great reader? Bob Neal (25:52): I read a lot, yes. Edgar Hellum (25:57): You must've gone to the fair every year. Bob Neal (26:03): Oh yes but that's not important. Jack Holzhueter (26:04): Oh yes it is. Edgar Hellum (26:04): We had to go to Madison to the fair and we'd ride on the train then I think the fare was 6 cents and they'd let us off at the fairgrounds. They had special trains. Sam Holmes (26:15): How long would it take? Edgar Hellum (26:21): 20 minutes. From Stoughton. But then I had to sit through it all the harness races and all that with my grandfather. Jack Holzhueter (26:33): He enjoyed those. �Edgar Hellum (26:34): In order to see the rest of the fair, of course it didn't mean anything to me cause I didn't know the drivers. Right. I didn't know the horses. Jack Holzhueter (26:44): Did you say, Mr Penberthy, that you used to go swimming in that unmentionable pond down here. Roy Penberthy (26:52): Yes. Piggy Sow and uh. Jack Holzhueter (26:52): Piggy Sow Roy Penberthy (26:52): You know I always wanted to go out and see that crick but I thought I dare not because it's dwindled to nothing, you know, and it was it was a real deep crick. When we'd ride under a bridge on the road going to Darlington our ponies would have to swim, it was that deep. We'd get all wet, you know. We didn't care. Dry out. Bob Neal (27:08): Do you remember Butler's dam? Roy Penberthy (27:11): Yes. Bob Neal (27:11): You do. Roy Penberthy (27:13): Yes. Right around the bend, by the depot, there. Bob Neal (27:15): Wasn't there a mill out there? Roy Penberthy (27:19): I don't know. Bob Neal (27:20): What would be the point of having a dam without a millrace? Roy Penberthy (27:31): We used to go skating there. �Bob Neal (27:31): Butler's dam? Roy Penberthy (27:31): Uh huh. My dad's mine is right back of our place. Our, our building is on the site where the mansion house was, you know, you've heard of . See Belmont was the Territorial capital of Wisconsin and these legislators all stayed at the mansion house, used to drive back and forth. Jack Holzhueter (27:51): Well, we don't have too much tape left. And uh, I do want to make the point that some day we want to get together with particularly with Edgar and find out what was done to the insides of the houses, what they looked like inside when you got there. And uh, what transformations have been worked over the years? Bob Neal (28:13): Don't make the mistakes the historic building survey made. Jack Holzhueter (28:18): Pardon? Bob Neal (28:19): Don't make the mistakes. Put windows where there weren't any, Edgar Hellum (28:27): no, we didn't change things too much. Jack Holzhueter (28:29): Well that'll come at a later time because that's a big deal and will require drawings and a whole lot of other things, I think. But we do want to get on tape if we can. Uh, particularly when we have somebody from town other than you two here who can comment on this if you don't mind it. Uh, what do you think the general feelings were in Mineral Point when, uh, Mr Hellum and Mr Neal began transforming these, what were then, what was then known principally as an old whorehouse in sort of the slum part of town into something that now the community is quite proud of? Roy Penberthy (29:06): I think a lot of people thought you were kind of crazy generally. Bob Neal (29:08): They still do. Edgar Hellum (29:15): Yep. That was very definitely, that was unusual for me. Uh, meaning if I, I said time and again, I told him, I said, if it was in Stoughton, I said I would never get laughed at if I went out on the street and time and �again they looked down their nose and laughed and sneered saying, well how are you doing out on the Shake Rag? And I resented it at first. Well of course I wasn't a native you see, but there were certain ones, the old druggist and the old man at the hardware store, Mr. Martin were always, always very friendly. They never asked it that way. They said, well how are you doing or is there something we can do to help you? They really, they were the two outstanding ones. Then the man down at the lumberyard finally went along with us. Uh, cause he thought we were doing a good job, but for the most part we were, we didn't have long hair and whiskers, but we were screwball kids, you know. Jack Holzhueter (30:02): Did William Kislingbury what was his attitude? He was in town at the time. Edgar Hellum (30:07): He didn't want to ___ time. We hired a carpenter who was such an alcoholic and was so blind that when he sawed the board time and time again, very seldom did he ever saw the board on the line. And then it never, nothing, nothing ever fit and we had him about, well I doubt if he worked a day. Roy Penberthy (30:22): Who was that? Bob Neal (30:22): Preacher Ellery. Roy Penberthy (30:27): Preacher Ellery. Edgar Hellum (30:27): So I finally told Bob, I said, well, there must be some carpenter in town we can get. Sam Holmes (30:58): Its pretty close to six. Jack Holzhueter (30:59): six o'clock. Okay. Edgar Hellum (31:01): Well when Bill came out to to, I told him, see, with Pendarvis house, we had left the roof line and put up four by fours. Well, we had done this already, put up the four by fours and simply taken the bad frame out and shoveled out all the filth that was in the back. And so I told Bill, I said, well, now we wanted to, we had to build this back up again. I said, I'm not enough of a carpenter do structurally to know how to do it. Well. He reluctantly said that he would come out and help us. And so he did come up. Well as what he did for us, we bought from the old zinc furnace, we bought things that almost looked like a storm window, great large sash and instead of putting them upright, we put them long ways because the two sash fit exactly on the spot. And so he made the sash or the frames for it and we used to lift those in and out. We never had any other way of opening it up. And then he finally came in and structurally then we took up the floors and got his advice about how to do that. �Edgar Hellum (32:04): And once we got him started then he was sold on it, We were, see this was a, it was almost like life and death for us. We were going to do this or else and without any know how, he felt sorry for us I think. But then he became interested enough to put it back. And then when we bought his house that his grandfather owned of course then he was particularly interested, that's what set him up and of course he never left us. We had him until he passed away, but he was, we would have never done it without Bill. Bill was very conservative, almost too conservative. But good know-how. And then when the old stone mason came, Jack Holzhueter (32:42): Mr Curtis. Edgar Hellum (32:42): and wanted to contribute a couple of weeks work and we are, when I approached. Bob Neal (32:46): day's work, not weeks work. Edgar Hellum (32:46): yes, he wanted to come out and do a couple of weeks work. You said a couple of weeks and we had him for what? A year and a half Jack Holzhueter (32:56): He contributed. Bob Neal (32:58): A marvelous old man. Jack Holzhueter (32:58): who was, who let him know about your undertaking? Edgar Hellum (33:03): He had retired from Frank Lloyd Wright and lived down in the old hotel down by the Walker house it is now and he heard about it and he wanted to come out and help. And so then from then on in we had, first we had Italian boys, Bob's father being down at the zinc furnace and being so with so many Italian workers down there. He was very sympathetic with the, with the Italians, they were good citizens. And so Bob would know some of the families, we had quite a number of Italian boys to start and then over the years we had some real good kids. Always had help, but always Bill to rely on for I'd say well, I want to do it thus and so and I'd have 15 to 20 sketches and each one you can't do it that way. And I'd say well, then can you figure out how we can do it? And so then he'd come out and say, well, if we do it this way, it'll look about like what you want to do. We didn't, we made some changes, you see. Jack Holzhueter (34:00): �We'll ask about the changes later on. But feelings have softened here in town, do you think? Over time it's no longer do people laugh at you in the street or when you've, Edgar Hellum (34:11): I don't know. This last incident about Pendarvis street, surprising people came up to me that I still don't know their names. I've been here for 45 years and they came up and they said they can't do this to you boys, the historical society can't close that place down and I wouldn't even know who they were and it was a first, its gratifying for us when we think of all the years that we were sort of ridiculed and finally finding out that that they realized we had done a job. Bob Neal (34:33): Did you say 45? What is it they say, 40 or 20 years, before you become a Mineral Pointer? Edgar Hellum (34:41): I came in 1935. Jack Holzhueter (34:44): How would you feel about all of this Mr Penberthy over the years? Roy Penberthy (34:47): Why? I thought it was a good thing, but I didn't think they'd ever make it. Edgar Hellum (34:51): No, no, I didn't either. Bob Neal (34:52): That sounds like the encouragement we got all along the way, really. Edgar Hellum (35:01): Yeah. So if you're talking to ex-banker Peters and he can tell you that when I started the Row, he said, you'll never make anything out of that. And I said, give me time and a little money, I had an awful time getting money from him. Jack Holzhueter (35:09): Okay. New Speaker (35:09): If I could just interject, I have some names of descendants. Well, Belle and William Curry does that. The Curry family. Roy Penberthy (35:24): KAIN? Speaker 4 (35:24): �C.U.R.R. Y. Roy Penberthy (35:26): Oh, Curry. Yes, yes. Cameron Dancy's wife was a Curry. New Speaker (35:31): There was a Clyde James and Hazel Curry. Roy Penberthy (35:36): Ethyl Curry, her name was. New Speaker (35:39): From Mineral Point? Roy Penberthy (35:39): Yes. Do you know Random Wearing. New Speaker (35:43): No, Roy Penberthy (35:44): That was their old home. Speaker 4 (35:46): And then there was a Mary Duback and Aldo Carbis. Roy Penberthy (35:53): Aldo who? New Speaker (35:53): Carbis. These are all descendants of the Carbis family. Roy Penberthy (35:57): That doesn't ring a bell. New Speaker (35:57): James Carbis. Carbis is, is one of the, uh, lived with Richard Thomas in the Trelawney. So. Edgar Hellum (36:07): Supposedly, but then we've been contradicted on that. We, we said that Carbis built Trelawney, Jack Holzhueter (36:14): yes. Carbis and Thomas. Andrew Thomas with Richard Thomas. �Edgar Hellum (36:20): I don't know. How did we get, we were told that that wasn't so several times. Speaker 4 (36:24): Oh, no, that's true. Yeah. That's, uh, do you know, uh, Henry or Harry and Alice Richardson? Roy Penberthy (36:34): Richardson? No, not here. In Spring Green Jack Holzhueter (36:37): Spring Green? New Speaker (36:37): Yes. Roy Penberthy (36:39): Yeah. He's the, uh, the Bert was the funeral director there. I worked for him. Jack Holzhueter (36:45): Now is Bert the, uh, son of that. Roy Penberthy (36:49): Yes, uh huh. Jack Holzhueter (36:49): and he's still out there? Roy Penberthy (36:50): Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (36:51): Wow. Well that's, that's good! You got two! New Speaker (36:53): Yeah. Uh, and another name, uh, Ferrell. Roy Penberthy (36:59): Ferrell. There's a lot of 'em. New Speaker (36:59): There are. Abbott or Ray Ferrell. Ferrell. Ferrell. Roy Penberthy (37:05): �There's Freeman Ferrell. Edgar Hellum (37:08): Who were his folks? New Speaker (37:14): Will Will Ferrell was his father. Speaker 4 (37:16): No. Well, but that's it's, it's a lead. Liz Holmes (37:24): But you got one. New Speaker (37:24): Yeah. That's important. New Speaker (37:29): Did you sign these releases? Jack Holzhueter (37:29): Well for the Mineral Point Historical Society. Liz Holmes (37:33): Let's that's just do this. � Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pendarvis Interview - Part III (transcript) https://mineralpointlibraryarchives.org/omeka/files/original/b02b8f59cdcb57d5c620b12c1b4119d2.m4a 1ae389c1b241a9e2aef9492eca148b65 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pendarvis Interview- Part III https://mineralpointlibraryarchives.org/omeka/files/original/e4fdc741b4b8528ab59040133806b7c8.pdf d0703bc2e125a6e0a816dc776ea6dbc1 PDF Text Text Bob Neal (00:04): Its on Laura Nohr (00:06): I saw that yellow dog, I think its Jerry's dog its a little bit of a thing. Bob Neal (00:12): No, I think that's Ben Lieder's. Laura Nohr (00:12): Oh, Ben's dog maybe. I don't know. Anyway, it came through. Bob Neal (00:16): Cute little thing, isn't it. Laura Nohr (00:17): Cute and came barking, you know, and she turned right around and she stood her ground. She never moved. Bob Neal (00:26): Was it a male or a female? Laura Nohr (00:28): I didn't know that it was over. Bob Neal (00:31): Standing up here on the steps and Pat was looking at it and the poor little thing was so scared. And did you see it when you came? Laura Nohr (00:36): No, I didn't. Hold on. Bob Neal (00:42): No little dog out there? Little tiny collar on it. Laura Nohr (00:42): A little dog. Very tiny. I thought it was a cat at first. Bob Neal (00:46): What did you say about this candy? Laura Nohr (00:46): Well Louise and Frank always bring a three pound box of these and their friends, they call it ambrosia. Food for the gods, you see. Ambrosia, you'll see. Food for the gods made in Milwaukee and um, so it was supposed to be divided between me and Carl. You see, because it comes in either Bob Neal (01:13): big slabs. Laura Nohr (01:13): Yeah, big slabs. So they said, well now you eat it and I came off in a hurry, with Edgar, you know, he went down, I forgot all about it and um, I really didn't think any more about it. And now when I came down, �you know, Carl says I can't eat chocolate. So, uh, I have taken them about half of one of the slabs that she had given to Pete. Bob Neal (01:40): You should use some. Laura Nohr (01:40): Give them a taste, you know, and she said, now you just take the rest of this home. I said my goodness you haven't used up more. No, not a pound of it, not half a half a pound. And she said, well now you give Pendarvis a taste of it so they know and then you give Georgia a taste and then you keep the other half for yourself. I said Okay. If you're not gonna use it. Edgar Hellum (02:07): This was too much to give up. Laura Nohr (02:08): No take it, and bake it. You can put it in with your English toffee, it breaks, you have to break it that way. Edgar Hellum (02:17): If you have any of that English toffee left its out there underneath those tablecloths. I forgot it was still there. Laura Nohr (02:21): Is there some left? Edgar Hellum (02:22): Yeah, You want a piece? Laura Nohr (02:23): No, no thank you. I just had a big piece of this. Speaker 1 (02:28): [inaudible] Edgar Hellum (02:34): Bob says we can, they just set it on a coffee table. Laura Nohr (02:36): Yeah, Edgar Hellum (02:37): And it picks up all the room. Laura Nohr (02:37): That's what this woman did. Mrs Jacka (02:39): He, she um, she um, prepared things for the blind and she never held it. She put it right on the table and, and she just did what she had prepared. She had notes, you know, she just simply sat and read and then those things were sent. Bob Neal (02:56): It's a nuisance of this kind of microphone to hold it over for one �person to speak and then hold it over for another. This one we can, if it works this way, just setting it on the table. Laura Nohr (03:14): Well I think its as clear as anything. Bob Neal (03:16): We're recording now. I want to see what it does now with uh, all of us gathered around here. How far are you? You must be five, six feet away. Nobody's, nobody's raising their voices, Laura, you know? Laura Nohr (03:34): I didn't know you were recording. Speaker 1 (03:35): Okay. [inaudible] Laura Nohr (03:55): Oh, mom, Mrs Jacka (04:07): I've even forgotten that fellow's name. Bob Neal (04:10): What fellows name? Edgar Hellum (04:10): My name? Laura Nohr (04:14): No, she's talkin' about, that uh. Edgar Hellum (04:14): You know my name. Mrs Jacka (04:19): I don't know what his name is now. Laura Nohr (04:21): the French man. That's the, uh, that makes the pottery. Bob Neal (04:28): Did I ask you who that was? Mrs Jacka (04:31): I think I've seen that picture before but I didn't Bob Neal (04:35): you didn't remember who it was? Mrs Jacka (04:36): No, I didn't. Bob Neal (04:37): That's the one that, um, Bertha Bauer told me to take good care of. I put it in that case. �Mrs Jacka (04:45): Who'd she say was, Bob Neal (04:47): She didn't say, Mrs Jacka (04:48): Oh, she just thought the style of it. Bob Neal (04:50): Do you know who that is? Mrs Jacka (04:56): That's Mrs Hood. Bob Neal (04:56): Do you remember her? Mrs Jacka (04:57): Yes. Bob Neal (04:58): You do? Mrs Jacka (05:00): Um hmm. Bob Neal (05:00): That's, that's the, um, Mrs Jacka (05:03): That's really a picture of her. Bob Neal (05:04): That's the same picture. This picture here. Mrs Jacka (05:07): Yeah. That's a good picture of her, too. Bob Neal (05:08): Well, I wondered whether this might be Mrs. Hood at an older age. Mrs Jacka (05:18): Well, I think she's a stronger featured woman, this woman is. She looks, see how large her face is. Bob Neal (05:26): But her hair is parted the same way. This must be quite a young person. This picture of Mrs. Hood. Mrs Jacka (05:33): That's Mrs. Hood. I just remember seeing her and that dog. Bob Neal (05:40): That's a sweet little hat she's got on there. You notice all the little flowers. �Mrs Jacka (05:45): Isn't that good. Bob Neal (05:45): Look at all the little flowers around the head. She looks there as though she was a, Mrs Jacka (05:51): I bet Bertha never saw her, Bob Neal (05:54): But George Masten says that he remembers Mrs. Hood. Mrs Jacka (05:56): oh, yes, he would. Bob Neal (05:59): I want to show them to George Masten sometime. And he said he remembered the house down there, the little uh, little frame house there where the filling station is, he said, he said it had a little picket fence around it. As a boy he used to remember that. But that. Mrs Jacka (06:24): They had a, um, a blacksmith shop there. Mastens did. Bob Neal (06:24): Right in Hood's back yard. Mrs Jacka (06:31): Yes, right there. Bob Neal (06:32): Well, this is the, this picture I had been looking for since, I don't know when and it was used, this is the Centennial booklet that was used. Mrs Jacka (06:44): That's the picture. Bob Neal (06:44): That was 1927 and this is 1958. So that's 31 years that that's been in hiding. And I, I really thought that the picture was lost. I had never been able to find a picture of Mrs. Hood. Mrs Jacka (07:05): Where did you find it? Bob Neal (07:05): Jeanette Terrell, Mrs Jacka (07:09): Oh! Laura Nohr (07:09): Oh for gracious sakes. Bob Neal (07:09): �She got it from Lizzie Terrell and Lizzie Terrell got it from old Mrs. Will Terrell, her mother. Evidently. Mrs. Mrs Jacka (07:22): Well you see Rablins were ah connected with the Terrells. Bob Neal (07:29): The Rablins. Was Mrs Will Terrell a Rablin? Was she Lizzie Rablin? No, not Lizzie. Um, what did Jeanette say her grandmother's name was? Let's see, Mark Terrill and Lizzie Terrell were brother and sister weren't they? Mrs Jacka (07:48): Yes, um hmm. Bob Neal (07:48): and Lizzie's mother and father were. Mrs Jacka (07:51): Rablins. Bob Neal (07:51): Was she a Rablin? Mrs Jacka (07:54): I think so. Bob Neal (07:55): And she married Will Terrell? Mrs Jacka (07:59): Um hmm. Bob Neal (07:59): Well it was Mrs Will Terrell that got that picture originally. Bob Neal (08:06): It isn't that, isn't that an excellent picture? Mrs Jacka (08:10): It's around here. Bob Neal (08:12): I, uh, I put it in this little case I had, I had some of these cases and I took the, uh, I took the other picture in here out. Mrs Jacka (08:25): They call those daguerreotypes. Bob Neal (08:25): Daguerreotypes, yeah. Mrs Jacka (08:25): Will has a picture of my father that they took, a daguerreotype. Bob Neal (08:30): Who took it? Do you remember? �Mrs Jacka (08:31): Oh no, I. Bob Neal (08:33): Wouldn't be a Moffitt. Mrs Jacka (08:38): It was earlier than that. Bob Neal (08:38): Moffitt took one picture of governor Dodge that I have in 1858. That's exactly a hundred years ago. And he was a, I've got an old Mineral Point store directory and there's an ad in there, says that CP Moffitt, daguerreotype artist, and this was 1857 or 59. I've forgotten which, but I'd like know who that that person was. That's the one that, uh, as I said, Mrs. Bauer told me to, uh, to save. Mrs Jacka (09:15): I wonder if she knew who it was. Bob Neal (09:17): She said, Mark this Important, put it away. Don't leave it with the rest of them. But you never told me who it was, whether she, whether she knew. You think she would've said, wouldn't you, that if she'd have known who it was. Isn't that an excellent picture? Mrs Jacka (09:38): He lived at the foot of Rablin's Hill. I don't know whether it stands there or not. Or not. Edgar Hellum (09:47): Rablin's house opposite McSherry's you mean on the other side of the ravine? Mrs Jacka (09:53): Yeah on the other side of the road. Edgar Hellum (09:53): Well you know the only house that's there now is that house where ah Fred Branger lived, you know that rock house, Mrs Jacka (09:59): Well this is on the other hill. Edgar Hellum (10:02): You mean John Manley's house? Oh, or you mean the other way over toward the, uh, John C. H. Peter's over in that uh, east of McSherry's. Yes, I know where you mean. Well, there's only one or two houses over there. You know, Laura, where Laura Nohr (10:24): Mmm Hmm. I know where you mean. Bob Neal (10:26): So Mrs Mrs Will Terrell was a Rablin �Mrs Jacka (10:31): Mark Terrill's wife was a Rablin and Mrs Sam was a Rablin. They were sisters. They were sisters, Mark Terrell's wife and, and uh, and Mrs [inaudible] were sisters. Bob Neal (10:47): Well then who was, uh, Will, Will Rablin. Lavinia Rablin. There was a Lavinia Rablin. Mrs Jacka (10:54): Well that was Mrs James's name, Lavinia Bob Neal (10:58): Lavinia? Mrs Jacka (11:01): umm hmm. Bob Neal (11:01): Mr Gundry told me about, um, an old Mrs Rablin here in Mineral Point, whose husband worked in the mines. And when he would go to work, he would lower her in an old, down into an abandoned mineshaft and she'd sit there all day and knit and so forth. So that she wouldn't be bothered by the Indians. Can you imagine that? Imagine spending the day down in the bottom of a mine shaft, knitting, or sewing or something. Then they'd come back at night and hoist her up. Mrs Jacka (11:35): Well you see Dave's mother remembered the Indians going through here. Laura Nohr (11:39): Oh, yes. I've heard her tell about the Indians. Edgar Hellum (11:42): Well, they were, they were friendly. They were begging, though, weren't they? Begging, always begging. Mrs Jacka (11:48): They had beaded work to sell, too. Edgar Hellum (11:51): But they always wanted flour, meat or, uh, all, always begging. Bob Neal (12:10): Mrs. Hood came from Georgia. Laura Nohr (12:14): Mrs. Hood came from Georgia, Bob said. Bob Neal (12:16): She was a southerner. She looks sort of Indian there don't you Think? Sort of the high cheekbones. Did you know any of the Hood children? Mrs Jacka (12:27): Any of the what? Laura Nohr (12:29): �Any of the Hood children? Mrs Jacka (12:31): No. Did she have any children? Bob Neal (12:33): Yes. Yes. Mrs Jacka (12:39): I never knew her to have any. Bob Neal (12:39): Well, one of her daughters had this, uh, one of the, son Sam Hood that used to correspond with Johnny Francis. In fact, I have the letters that said. Mrs Jacka (12:54): Wasn't that her husband's name? Sam? Bob Neal (12:56): No, John. John. He died in 1844. Laura Nohr (13:02): Her husband. Bob Neal (13:02): Her husband, Mrs Hood's husband, John Hood, died in 1844. Mrs Jacka (13:07): Well, I never remember anybody around there but her. Bob Neal (13:11): She must've been elderly. Mrs Jacka (13:14): I never remember any men. Bob Neal (13:17): or any, any children? Mrs Jacka (13:18): No, no children. Laura Nohr (13:21): How old were you when you remember her? around there. Mrs Jacka (13:25): Well, when we moved down there I was about six years old. Laura Nohr (13:31): I mean a child six wouldn't. Bob Neal (13:35): Well, you uh, do you remember her as being an old lady? Mrs Jacka (13:42): Just about like this. �Bob Neal (13:43): You do. Mrs Jacka (13:47): Just about like you see her here. Bob Neal (13:47): Because that strikes me as rather a young looking picture. Mrs Jacka (13:53): Well, of course you can't tell what she might have put on. Bob Neal (13:57): They probably got all dressed up to have their pictures taken. Mrs Jacka (14:04): Sure, well that was just it. Bob Neal (14:04): Well, I've never come across any other pictures in all of the pictures I've seen. Mrs Jacka (14:06): I never saw another picture of inaudible. Bob Neal (14:09): I think that's quite a, quite a find to get that. Mrs Jacka (14:14): I think so, too. Bob Neal (14:14): Because otherwise it could be lost forever. Mrs Jacka (14:20): My, but she's a strong featured woman, this woman. Bob Neal (14:23): I'll have to show that to Mrs Bauer and ask her. Laura Nohr (14:28): Where did that come from? Where did you pick this up? Bob Neal (14:29): I don't remember where I got it. Laura Nohr (14:32): I thought maybe you might trace it. Bob Neal (14:33): I remember where I got it. But do you remember that afternoon that you and Harry were out there? There's a bar and I showed her that and she said get an envelope, put it in there, mark it important. And uh, I'll have to, to uh, show it to her and ask her if she knows who it is. Maybe George Masten might know, too. �Laura Nohr (14:49): Is he still living? Edgar Hellum (14:53): Ed Graber tells me that he'll go down to Darlington with me when, uh, I go down to visit with George. He likes to go down and see him and he says George is just in perfect health. Laura Nohr (15:06): George Masten is in perfect health. Mrs Jacka (15:08): Oh, he lives in Darlington with somebody. Laura Nohr (15:09): mmm hmm. I know. Bob Neal (15:11): I think he's what, 93 or 94 ? Mrs Jacka (15:15): He went to live with the people he lived with in Darlington when he first went there. So I've heard. Bob Neal (15:23): He has a birthday. Uh, his birthday's in February or March, so he's probably turning 93 or 94 this year. And he has an excellent memory, particularly about the tornado. Mrs Jacka (15:39): Is that right. Bob Neal (15:39): He remembers the tornado of 78 so well and of course so does Bertha Bauer. She was, she was telling me about it. Mrs Jacka (15:49): Well, I remember going around and seeing the ruins. Bob Neal (15:53): After, after the tornado. Mrs Jacka (15:53): Yeah. Afterwards, that's all. Laura Nohr (15:54): Were are you in school? When it hit? Mrs Jacka (15:57): Yes, umm hmm. Bob Neal (16:00): Did they dismiss school? Mrs Jacka (16:02): Well, see, I'd have been eight years old. I was born in '70. �Laura Nohr (16:09): Did they dismiss school? Mrs Jacka (16:10): They did? Laura Nohr (16:12): I've heard dad say they did. Mrs Jacka (16:15): Well, he remembers about it because he went and saw the homes. Their home was blown out into the street. Bob Neal (16:24): What do you remember about the tornado? Just seeing the buildings that were wrecked? Mrs Jacka (16:31): I remember the brewery more than anything. Bob Neal (16:33): yeah, there's some excellent pictures of, uh, of the Gilman's brewery after it was all demolished and the trees down Mrs Jacka (16:43): Everything out there was just demolished. Laura Nohr (16:45): I've heard dad say that some old man. Mrs Jacka (16:49): That was Toay. Donnie Toay. Laura Nohr (16:50): who was a character. Told him as he was coming out of the school house, that all his people had been killed in the tornado and he went home crying. Mrs Jacka (17:01): Well, I think he took him home. Bob Neal (17:05): Who was that? Tip Allen? Mrs Jacka (17:05): No, one of the Toays. Bob Neal (17:09): One of the Toays. When you said a character Laura, only character I could think of, you remember Tip Allen? Wasn't he a character. Laura Nohr (17:20): Maybe that's who told dad that? Mrs Jacka (17:23): No, it was Toay. �Laura Nohr (17:26): I know, but I mean, I don't think he'd tell him that and take him home, you know? Do you, Mrs Jacka (17:31): Oh, I don't know. Laura Nohr (17:31): I heard dad say it was some old funny fella. Some old character. Maybe the Toay took him home afterwards. Mrs Jacka (17:41): It was some Toay that wanted to adopt him. Laura Nohr (17:44): To adopt Dad? They must have done a lot of that in those days. Mrs Jacka (17:53): Well he was quite a good looking youngster. David was a good looking kid. Bob Neal (17:57): But what was the matter with his parents? Mrs Jacka (18:03): They were kind of attached to each other. Bob Neal (18:06): this old man? Laura Nohr (18:12): They probably used to say that to be nice to a kid. Mrs Jacka (18:21): Jim Toay, was it old Jim Toay? Johnny? Who lived where the Petersons lived years ago? Bob Neal (18:32): Well, let's see. Um, yes. Uh, Mary Holzmiller's grandfather wasn't, wasn't, was he a Toay? She was married Toay, wasn't she? Laura Nohr (18:49): Mrs Holzmiller was Mary Toay? Mrs Jacka (18:52): Yes, but this was a relative, but it wasn't. Bob Neal (18:57): Was it a Hockings? It wasn't the Hockings? You remember Mrs Hocking lived there? Mrs Jacka (19:09): It was Mrs Hockings' father. What was Mrs. Hockings' name before she was married? Bob Neal (19:24): I can't help you out on that. �Mrs Jacka (19:28): I can't think either. Bob Neal (19:32): Did I ever ask you and you know, one time when we were talking about the Klais pottery, whether you remember any children that Mr. Klais had? Mrs Jacka (19:42): No, there was never anybody around. Bob Neal (19:44): I thought there was a, I sort of have in the back of my mind that somebody by the name of Alice Klais, somebody other from Racine years ago came down to see the old house. This was, this was maybe at the time of the Centennial, maybe 30 years ago. And, nobody ever definitely contacted her to know where she lived or anything about it. So, that's the only clue that I have that Klais had any children. Well of course he must have had a wife. Did you ever, was she ever, did she ever help? Mrs Jacka (20:24): No, I never saw a woman around there. Just this man. Bob Neal (20:28): All by himself? Mrs Jacka (20:30): And he'd be outside working in the shed, you know, kind of a shedlike affair. Bob Neal (20:37): Was he all covered with clay and, and different [inaudible] Mrs Jacka (20:41): Well he'd mold it with his hands. Bob Neal (20:44): Spin the table, the wheel? Mrs Jacka (20:44): No, I never saw anything of that kind. He'd just mold it with his hands. Bob Neal (20:51): Well, he made the what did he make? Mostly flower pots or crocks, crockery ware? Mrs Jacka (20:58): Yeah. Crockery. Jars. Bob Neal (20:58): Well, did he have a horse in the yard that stirred up the clay to mix it up? Mrs Jacka (21:07): �No, mm hmm. Bob Neal (21:07): Well, did you ever see where he, uh fired the, the things that he made? The furnace? Mrs Jacka (21:12): No. He was just molding it with his hands. Laura Nohr (21:17): Mother was quite young. How old were you? You were only about six, weren't you? Mrs Jacka (21:22): I was probably five. Bob Neal (21:25): Well that's uh, that's, that's pretty young. Laura Nohr (21:28): She wouldn't notice things like that. Bob Neal (21:28): You'd think there would be somebody around to help him, but he evidently he worked all by himself. Laura Nohr (21:38): Mother said, you said that you used to go up there and sit and watch, just like a kid would, was interested in things like that. Bob Neal (21:46): Was he a nice man? I mean he didn't chase you away. Mrs Jacka (21:50): No. Bob Neal (21:50): Tell you get out of his way or Mrs Jacka (21:54): No. He was a short, stocky fella. Bob Neal (21:56): I wonder what nationality he was. Klais. Laura Nohr (21:57): Nationality. What nationality. Mrs Jacka (22:04): I wouldn't know anything about that. Bob Neal (22:07): I don't suppose he was a Cornishman? Mrs Jacka (22:10): French? But isn't that a French name? �Bob Neal (22:10): I don't even know how it was spelled. Mrs Jacka (22:14): I don't either. Bob Neal (22:16): I always. Mrs Jacka (22:17): It always seemed to me it was French. Bob Neal (22:19): I always imagined as being C L A C E but. Mrs Jacka (22:24): I always thought there was a Y in it. Bob Neal (22:24): somebody said, maybe you did, C L Y C E , but it's a name that's completely disappeared and I've never come. Mrs Jacka (22:37): Its a name that's not common at all. Bob Neal (22:39): I've never come across it any, any more other than that potter's name. Mrs Jacka (22:47): It seemed when he was gone everything there was gone with him. Bob Neal (22:52): Well, when would you go over? After school? Or on Saturdays or. Mrs Jacka (22:55): I wouldn't be going to school then I don't suppose, Bob Neal (22:58): No, I don't suppose they had kindergarten in those days. Mrs Jacka (23:03): No. Bob Neal (23:03): Well of course you lived right there nearby too. Mrs Jacka (23:07): Well it wouldn't be far. Bob Neal (23:07): Not too far. Who else lived over in that neighborhood? Do you remember the old government spring there? Just below Klaises house? Mrs Jacka (23:19): Well, let's see who, who lived by that spring? Bob Neal (23:23): �Remember Lizzie Hoffman? Mrs Jacka (23:26): Aye. Bob Neal (23:27): Or the Cox's? Lizzie Hoffman lived up in, uh, in that house where the Mrs Jacka (23:37): I have the name of that woman that lived close to that spring and they called it by her name. Mrs Jacka (23:49): It would come to me if I didn't try. Bob Neal (23:54): Well, everybody in that neighborhood used to go there for water, didn't they? Mrs Jacka (23:58): Yes they did. Laura Nohr (24:04): Where was that spring, Bob? Bob Neal (24:04): Why, Its still there. Laura Nohr (24:05): Is it? Bob Neal (24:06): Yes, they've got it, it's a closed now and covered over. Mrs Jacka (24:10): And also many people used to go there to get their water. Bob Neal (24:15): It was the main supply of water. Laura Nohr (24:17): Wasn't it the main supply of water? Bob Neal (24:18): Everybody got their drinking water there. Mrs Jacka (24:22): Well, apparently, they did. Bob Neal (24:22): and that was just below Klaises place there. Mrs Jacka (24:27): Yes, it was. Bob Neal (24:27): I wonder whether he got his water for his pottery and clay there. �Mrs Jacka (24:34): Right at the foot of the hill. It was right at the foot. Bob Neal (24:34): Do you remember that old log and rock house back to the spring? Mrs Jacka (24:43): Well, there was a house there, a log house. Bob Neal (24:48): Yes. You don't remember who lived in it? Mrs Jacka (24:51): No, that's the name I'm trying to think of. Bob Neal (24:57): but was she a lady lived all by herself? Mrs Jacka (25:00): Yes, she was all by herself. Bob Neal (25:05): No, no children or, Mrs Jacka (25:07): Well, I tell you, she had a sis, she had a daughter that married one of the Goldsworthys here. Laura married, Laura Goldsworthy. Bob Neal (25:27): No. Laura wouldn't be Laura Goldsworthy. Laura Nohr (25:31): no. What would the Goldsworthy's name be? Would it be Laura? Mrs Jacka (25:36): He lives here in town. Laura Nohr (25:37): Oh. Was their daughter's name Laura, the woman that lived in the log house? Mrs Jacka (25:45): No, that was the mother. It wasn't, It wasn't a common name. Laura Nohr (26:01): What Goldsworthy did the daughter marry? Mrs Jacka (26:06): Related to Tassy Ivey. She was a Goldsworthy Laura Nohr (26:11): I didn't know she was a Goldsworthy. Bob Neal (26:14): Tassy Ivey? Mrs. Frank Ivey? �Mrs Jacka (26:16): Yeah. Well her husband Bob Neal (26:21): Mrs. Frank Ivey was a Goldsworthy? Mrs Jacka (26:26): Her. Bob Neal (26:26): I thought she was a Toay. Mrs Jacka (26:28): Her father, Bob Neal (26:31): Was Tassie Toay. Mrs Jacka (26:31): Was it her father or grandfather was a Goldsworthy. Her mother was a Goldsworthy. That's right. Tassie's mother, was a Goldsworthy. Bob Neal (26:42): and Goldsworthy married a Toay Laura Nohr (26:45): Goldsworthy married a Toay? Mrs Jacka (26:48): Yeah. Laura Nohr (26:50): Yes, because Tassie was Tassie Toay. Bob Neal (26:51): And Tassie, Tassie Toay married Frank Ivey. Yeah. That's the way. Of course Goldsworthy is an old, old name around here. Well, where did you get your drinking water over at the hotel. Did you have a well there? Mrs Jacka (27:15): There used to be, down at Argall's brewery, there used to be a spring, too. Bob Neal (27:21): Yes. Would you have to carry water from there up to the hotel. Mrs Jacka (27:27): Well, yeah. I don't know they carried all of it, but they carried some. Bob Neal (27:33): That was quite a, that was quite a, that was quite a trip. Laura Nohr (27:36): You'd probably have out rain barrels. This would be only drinking water you'd carry. But even then, can you imagine, all that drinking �water. Bob Neal (27:47): Yes. That'd be, that'd be a lot I suppose. Laura Nohr (27:50): What did you carry it in? Just an ordinary pail? Mrs Jacka (27:55): mm hmmm. Laura Nohr (27:55): One in each hand? One pail in each hand? Mrs Jacka (27:59): Oh, I suppose. Laura Nohr (28:00): Who used to do it? The children? Or did the whole family go? Mrs Jacka (28:05): Well Dad did a lot of it. I've heard mother say how early he used to get up in the morning to go to carry water. Bob Neal (28:14): Okay. When you were, um, a youngster, Mrs Jacka, did you ever go around and pick up float lead after it rained? You know, go around and pick up the little pieces of lead. Mrs Jacka (28:25): Yeah, I'd put it in a can and take it to the grocery store and sell 'em. Bob Neal (28:31): All the kids used to do that, didn't they? Mrs Jacka (28:32): Yeah. Bob Neal (28:36): Where, what store would you take it to? Mrs Jacka (28:38): Well, we'd take it to where Jeuck's are now. Bob Neal (28:44): Oh, that'd be old Mr Jeuck? Or that'd be before that. You remember, Mrs Jacka (28:51): Oh yes, before Jeuck. Bob Neal (28:51): You remember the old storekeeper's name? Mrs Jacka (28:54): Well, I think the name was Lanyon. �Bob Neal (28:57): Lanyon. Well, I know that used to be a favorite way for kids to earn money after a rainstorm to walk around with a syrup pail and pick up these little chunks of lead. Mrs Jacka (29:10): It was a can, had it in a can Bob Neal (29:13): Yeah, that was a favorite way of earning money. Laura Nohr (29:18): What would you do? Trade it in on candy right away? Mrs Jacka (29:22): Well, pretty quick. Bob Neal (29:23): Rock candy? Mrs Jacka (29:26): Mostly stick candy. Bob Neal (29:28): Oh, stick candy. Did you ever get rock candy? You know, that crystal rock candy with the string to it. Laura Nohr (29:35): Like Metz used to sell that rock candy when we were kids growing up. I used to buy it. Bob Neal (29:40): and so did Laura Nohr (29:42): It lasted a long time, Bob Neal (29:43): And so did, Will Bliss, always had rock candy. Edgar Hellum (29:49): If I got any money. I got a chunk of that. And of course it was so hard. Laura Nohr (29:54): Yes. But it lasted. Edgar Hellum (29:55): It was nothing but just pure crystallized sugar. Laura Nohr (30:02): Yeah. You used to go fishing and picnicking and picking flowers down below the zinc furnace, too. Didn't you? A lot you were growing up. Mrs Jacka (30:12): Picking flowers, I should say. �Bob Neal (30:14): Do you remember the old zinc works down by the mile crossing? The old, the old Bellevue zinc works. Mrs Jacka (30:23): Would that be, Spensleys? Bob Neal (30:25): No, no, down the railroad track. Mrs Jacka (30:28): Oh, well we wouldn't go too far down there. Bob Neal (30:30): You know where the mile crossing is? Mrs Jacka (30:31): Mmm Hmmm. Bob Neal (30:31): down. The old, old Matthison and Hegler zinc works used to be down there. Mrs Jacka (30:39): Yeah, but we wouldn't go down, that far. Bob Neal (30:42): Didn't go that far. Mrs Jacka (30:43): mm mmm. Laura Nohr (30:43): That's down where the bridge is. You know, Bob Neal (30:48): I don't, uh, uh, I've got a, uh, uh, a pencil drawing of the old Matthison and Hegler zinc works, but I've never found anyone that, that remembers anything about it. Laura Nohr (31:01): Is there a date on it? Bob Neal (31:03): Yes, there is, but I can't, I can't remember exactly the, the date to quote it now. Laura Nohr (31:11): It'd be over a hundred years ago now. Bob Neal (31:12): Well, could be Gilly Bennett would have probably known. Mrs Jacka (31:20): It's funny, I can remember about Klais don't you know? I can see that stocky little old fellow and that's all I do remember just seeing him molding it with his hands. �Bob Neal (31:36): Well, I'd like to, uh, he must have made other things, different shaped pots and crocks for, uh, for keeping the preserves or lard or, or, uh, did he make flower pots, too? I imagine he did. Mrs Jacka (31:55): Well, they were, that red clay, you know. Bob Neal (32:01): Well don't you think that in order to get them round that he'd have a, a, a table that would revolve? Mrs Jacka (32:09): He had a form, don't you know. Bob Neal (32:12): then he shaped them, as they turned around, he shaped them with his hand is the thing spun on the table. Mrs Jacka (32:17): Well, maybe I didn't get to see him before that. Bob Neal (32:20): They generally have, they used to have a foot pedal, like a something like a sewing machine pedal that kept this geared to this revolving table and as it spun, Mrs Jacka (32:32): I thought of that name. Hitchens. Hitchens' Spring. Bob Neal (32:37): Hitchens' Spring. Well I've heard the name of Hitchens. Mrs Hitchen lived there in that old house, then. Mrs Jacka (32:47): That was Hitchens' Spring. Bob Neal (32:50): I'll have to bring up uh, an old photograph album that I've got that's got a picture of that house in it maybe that'd uh, remind you of what it was when you were a girl there. Mrs Jacka (33:04): and that water was just as clear as could be Bob Neal (33:08): Good water? Mrs Jacka (33:12): Mmm hmmm. Bob Neal (33:12): Well lets see, if you were five or six years old, that would be what? Mrs Jacka (33:20): I suppose maybe that was what took me up to Klais's, was getting water �from Hitchens' Spring. Bob Neal (33:24): '78, '79. Mrs Jacka (33:24): 'Cause you'd have to go kind of down around there to get it. Bob Neal (33:33): Do you remember anybody that lived in that little red brick house there where Jimmy Mitchell used to live? It was torn down some years ago. The Grays used to live in there. Jack? Mrs Jacka (33:46): No, I don't remember any name. Bob Neal (33:49): And then there was a double row, two rock houses together. Mrs Jacka (33:55): There were some German women. Bob Neal (34:00): German women. Did you know that Mrs,.uh, Ingles that, uh, lived, that old lady that lived with Mrs. Henry Kaufman? She lived over there in uh, in that house next to Klais's, we know Charlie Noble's house, she lived the house this side. She was quite an elderly lady. I think she came out here from Chicago. Mrs Jacka (34:26): They were a couple of German women. They used to go out washing. Bob Neal (34:31): The only people I remember going out washing was Minnie Cridge. Mrs Jacka (34:36): Yeah. Well that was later, Bob Neal (34:40): And n****r. Maryanne, Bob Neal (34:43): What was her. Laura Nohr (34:45): Miller, Maryann Miller. Bob Neal (34:49): Mary Ann Miller. They said she used to sit there by her little, uh, in her doorway over in her little cabin there and sing. Do you ever hear her sing? Mrs Jacka (34:57): Mmm hmmm. Bob Neal (34:57): see, did she, what did she have? A guitar or a banjo or something? �Mrs Jacka (35:02): no, she never played an instrument. Bob Neal (35:05): Just just sang by herself? Mrs Jacka (35:07): mmm hmmm. Bob Neal (35:07): What would she sing? A color or a ? Mrs Jacka (35:13): Colored songs. Bob Neal (35:13): Colored songs? Uh, uh, what are they called? Laura Nohr (35:17): Negro spirituals? Bob Neal (35:17): A spiritual sort of thing. Did she have a nice voice? Mrs Jacka (35:25): Well, it was a colored voice. Bob Neal (35:25): Yeah. Laura Nohr (35:28): Did you ever, did you see much of Marianne? Mrs Jacka (35:34): Well, when I knew her, most of her, she was out working. Laura Nohr (35:37): You don't ever remember her growing up here? Mrs Jacka (35:41): Up at Aunt Sally's is mostly what I remember. Laura Nohr (35:44): All right. Did she grow up here? Bob Neal (35:48): What? Laura Nohr (35:48): Did she grow up here? Mary Ann. Bob Neal (35:48): I don't know. Laura Nohr (35:48): I don't either. �Bob Neal (35:48): Oh, you don't? I have a faint recollection of her don't you? Laura Nohr (35:52): Oh yes, I remember her. Bob Neal (35:54): And I can't remember Fanny Toby. Laura Nohr (35:57): You see, I probably remember her because my coming to school and she would come from that way and I very often met her. Don't you remember Fanny Toby? Bob Neal (36:08): Do you remember? You remember Fanny Toby, Mrs Jacka. Mrs Jacka (36:12): Mmm hmm. Bob Neal (36:12): Uh, and then was there a colored family in town here by the name of Wasley? Mrs Jacka (36:19): Was that the name? Bob Neal (36:20): Was there a Dave Wasley? Colored? Mrs Jacka (36:29): I can't recall the name myself. Bob Neal (36:31): Wasley, Wasley and then a. Laura Nohr (36:35): Dodge Toby Dodge, Bob Neal (36:35): Dodge, Dodge. Bob Neal (36:39): They must have been, uh, uh, well you can call them slaves. They took Governor Dodge's name. Laura Nohr (36:48): Must have been. Bob Neal (36:48): He came up here with ah with the colored people from the South when he came here. Laura Nohr (36:55): mmm hmmm �Mrs Jacka (36:57): Effie, well, uh, Effie Early you're thinking about. Laura Nohr (37:00): Well, no, but she is another one. Bob Neal (37:04): Yeah, Effie Early, too. Lets see, what were the Negro families here in town. There's the Dodges and the Tobys, and um, and n****r Mary Ann Miller. Mrs Jacka (37:16): And the Earlys. Bob Neal (37:16): And the Earlys. And I thought there was a Wasley. Laura Nohr (37:22): I don't know about them. Bob Neal (37:23): I thought there was a Wasley. But they were the only ones that I've ever known about it. Laura Nohr (37:43): It's too bad we don't know who this lady is. Well, you don't have any idea, where you picked this picture up? Bob Neal (37:52): I don't have any idea. I don't have any. Mrs Jacka (37:55): I betcha Bertha didn't know who that was. She was just talking to you about the frame. Bob Neal (38:01): No, I put it in that frame. Mrs Jacka (38:02): Oh. Laura Nohr (38:07): We were looking at a group of pictures out there that day that it was with, I wonder, Bob Neal (38:12): well, Laura Nohr (38:12): I mean it was in a big box that you brought out. Bob Neal (38:16): I should remember and should mark down where I get those things, now how I happen to come by that picture, I don't know. I don't know whether it was, lets see, would that have. Laura Nohr (38:27): �We looked at pictures from Wheatons out there, that day. Bob Neal (38:34): Yes. Yes. I don't know if that would have come from Amy Masten's or not. Laura Nohr (38:39): And we looked at pictures from Amy Masten, too. Bob Neal (38:41): But then of course I've had so many other sources of, uh, of pictures. Laura Nohr (38:45): But I thought this was with one of the boxes of pictures that you brought out to us when we were. Bob Neal (38:53): You remember the Lutie family? Mrs Jacka (38:56): Who? Laura Nohr (38:56): The Lutie family. Mrs Jacka (39:01): Oh, yes. He was sexton at the school. Bob Neal (39:02): There were quite a few girls weren't there? Mrs Jacka (39:10): Well, there was one that went with Charlie Grange. Bob Neal (39:10): I was always under the impression that two of the Lutie girls went out to Hawaii and, Mrs Jacka (39:18): Well, they went west. Bob Neal (39:18): or sort of a salvation army or, or some kind of missionary work. I've got a picture, I think of a, of boy, I don't know. There was four girls and maybe their mother and I've always understood that that was the Lutie family. Mrs Jacka (39:37): Tommy Lutie. Bob Neal (39:41): Tommy Lutie. Bob Neal (39:43): Where did they live? Mrs Jacka (39:46): �Well, they lived about right in there where they built the high school, in there some place. Bob Neal (39:53): The present high school? Or the ah or the ah grade school? Mrs Jacka (39:58): The present high school. Bob Neal (40:00): The present high school. Tommy Lutie. Laura Nohr (40:06): Did they have a large family? Mrs Jacka (40:07): Oh, I don't think so. Laura Nohr (40:08): What did he do? Work at the zinc furnace too, then? Bob Neal (40:11): No. You said, what did you say Mrs Jacka? He was. Mrs Jacka (40:15): He was, he was. Laura Nohr (40:15): Oh, sexton. Mrs Jacka (40:15): Sexton at the school. Bob Neal (40:20): As we'd say now, Mrs Jacka (40:21): He used to ring the bell. Bob Neal (40:22): janitor. Laura Nohr (40:23): When you went to school was he the sexton? Mrs Jacka (40:24): Mmm hmmm. When I was in the high school. Laura Nohr (40:29): Oh, is that right? What was that? You used to have some saying that they used to say about him? Something about good morning, Mr Lutie, or some little poem. You remember that? Mrs Jacka (40:42): He was an awful kind old chap. Laura Nohr (40:44): �That's true. I remember you told me that. Mrs Jacka (40:46): Maybe. Laura Nohr (40:48): Some kind of a little poem you had. Bob Neal (40:54): To greet him? Laura Nohr (40:58): Something like that. You know, just like kids. You don't remember it, huh? , Bob Neal (41:15): Well, they, uh, the Pesch family lived, uh, uh, across from the telephone office in that, in that well did she, uh, did Mrs. Bauer live there for, uh, uh, some number of years? Mrs Jacka (41:31): Yeah, when she went to school. Bob Neal (41:31): Her father, uh, boarded her out there and she lived and stayed there. I wonder, what was she, about 18, when she left Mineral Point? Mrs Jacka (41:40): That's what she said. Bob Neal (41:43): 18 years old. She went away to school. Well, she, she speaks of course, of the Jeucks and the Pesches. Mrs Jacka (42:01): The Jeucks lived where Clint lives. Bob Neal (42:01): Do you remember any of the, uh, uh, Mathison or the Hegler family that used to live there where Clint lives? Mrs Jacka (42:12): No, you see we didn't Bob Neal (42:12): One of the, uh, one of the, uh, uh, Mathison girls. Well, now, how do I get, Fannie Gilman's name comes to me in connection with, uh, one of the Mathison girls. I wonder if, Mrs Jacka (42:31): well, Fannie GIlman married a, one of those boys. Bob Neal (42:35): A Mathison or a Hegler? They were the ones, Mrs Jacka (42:45): A Mathison, I think. �Bob Neal (42:46): They were the ones that had this old Bellevue zinc works that I mentioned a whole back. Mrs Jacka (42:50): Oh. Bob Neal (42:50): And they lived where, you mentioned Clinton there and made me think that that's where the Mathison's lived. There's a fireplace in each end of this Uh, Mrs Jacka (43:02): you know the fireplaces down there. Bob Neal (43:05): One at each end of this long room and uh, uh, someone told me that they used to have a glass, two glass chandeliers for candles hung in the, in the center of this great big, what was it, a ballroom. Mrs Jacka (43:23): The library used to be there when they first had it. The public library. Bob Neal (43:28): Upstairs there? Mrs Jacka (43:29): No downstairs. Yeah, Bob Neal (43:32): Downstairs. The old, the old early library. Mrs Jacka (43:36): The first they had. Bob Neal (43:36): Who was the, uh, who was the librarian then? Mrs Jacka (43:40): I think Mrs. Chase. Bob Neal (43:43): Mrs. March Chase. Mrs Jacka (43:46): Mm hmm. That's why they said the books were all so dirty. Laura Nohr (43:48): Dirty? Oh dear. Bob Neal (43:55): Why were they all so dirty? Mrs Jacka (43:57): Because she was always so dirty. �Laura Nohr (44:02): Mrs. Chase? Mrs Jacka (44:05): Oh, kind of. Bob Neal (44:05): I wouldn't, you wouldn't think. Laura Nohr (44:07): No. Mrs Jacka (44:11): No you wouldn't think it. Bob Neal (44:11): Did I tell you that I saw Katherine Chase last year in Chicago? Laura Nohr (44:17): No. Bob Neal (44:18): She lives in Hammond, Indiana and she was, uh, she happened to be up to Chicago, so I had a chance to visit with her. She hasn't been back here in years. Do you remember her? Mrs Jacka (44:31): Yeah. Bob Neal (44:31): Kate Chase. She married some, I think his name was Sam Higgins? Laura Nohr (44:39): No, I wouldn't remember. Bob Neal (44:41): Well, I wouldn't either. I of course don't even remember Reverend and Mrs. Chase. Mrs Jacka (44:47): Did Edgar come? Laura Nohr (44:47): Yah, um hmm. Did Edgar come, she said. Bob Neal (44:53): This recording up to this point was um, done with Mrs Dave Jacka who was Agnes Chamley, and her daughter, Laura Jacka Nohr. Laura, how old is your mother? Laura Nohr (45:22): Mother is 88. She was 88 the 19th of January. Bob Neal (45:28): This is just to confirm some of the dates and statements that she made and to give a time setting on some of the recollections. �Bob Neal (45:47): Ah there's a correction. I want to make. Lizzie Terill and young Mark Terrell's mother was a Rablin. In other words, old Mrs. Mark Terrell Sr was a Rablin. I'm mistaken when I mentioned it being Mrs Will Terrill. Bob Neal (46:19): Aunt Etta, your birthday is when? Wednesday? How old are you going to be? Etta Neal (46:23): 89. Bob Neal (46:25): 89. Etta Neal (46:27): Pretty near 90. Bob Neal (46:29): Pretty near 90. When did you start teaching school? Etta Neal (46:35): Oh, dear, I don't know. Bob Neal (46:35): Do you remember what year? Etta Neal (46:37): Oh, are you, you're not going to write that part? Bob Neal (46:41): Well, can't you tell me? Etta Neal (46:50): Uh, I graduated in '86. Bob Neal (46:55): In '86? Etta Neal (46:55): Uh huh. Bob Neal (46:55): And you started started teaching the next year. Then when did you finish? When did you quit teaching? Etta Neal (47:08): '57. Bob Neal (47:10): No, '37 probably. Bob Neal (47:16): You finished in '86 and when did you quit teaching then? �Etta Neal (47:33): Oh, I can't think of. No, '37 '37. Bob Neal (47:45): 1937. Did you ever teach? Um, a first grade? Etta Neal (47:51): Oh yes, I supervised. Bob Neal (47:55): Howard Weisen said he thought you taught first grade? with Miss Jacka. Miss Jacka taught second grade. Etta Neal (48:03): Well, we taught together, but um, I should , well, we both teach Bob Neal (48:14): Which Miss Jacka was that? Etta Neal (48:15): Laura. You don't know her, I guess. Bob Neal (48:19): That was in the fourth ward school, but when you started teaching, did you teach first grade or second grade? Etta Neal (48:28): Taught first. Bob Neal (48:29): Taught first. Etta Neal (48:30): I guess. Bob Neal (48:30): Then when did you switch over to second? Etta Neal (48:33): Well, I don't know, we worked together, you know. They would pass from room to room. Bob Neal (48:52): Did you ever teach in country school? You teach out in country school first? Before you came in town. Who's that? Etta Neal (49:09): I can't see it. Can't see it at all. Bob Neal (49:09): Who is that then? Etta Neal (49:15): That's grandfather. Grandfather Rogers. Bob Neal (49:18): Grandfather Rogers. �Etta Neal (49:18): I gave that to your dad. Bob Neal (49:21): That's your mother's father. Etta Neal (49:22): Um hmm. Didn't you know who it was? Charles Neal (49:28): I didn't know who it was. Etta Neal (49:28): Awww. Bob Neal (49:38): Is that Clark? Is it somebody who was in business with Grandpa Neal? Etta Neal (49:44): I can't see that one. Edgar Hellum (49:52): What time did you leave Milwaukee? Half past nine? You did. Did you come right straight out. You did? What time did they get here, Carol? Carol (50:05): About eleven o'clock. Edgar Hellum (50:05): Do you have a nice ride out, Debbie? Debbie (50:07): Uh huh. Edgar Hellum (50:07): Who drove? Debbie (50:10): My father. Edgar Hellum (50:10): He did? Does your mother drive a car? Debbie (50:13): Yes. Edgar Hellum (50:13): She does. She didn't drive today. Debbie (50:16): No. Edgar Hellum (50:16): How come? Debbie (50:19): �It was too busy on the road. Edgar Hellum (50:19): Was there lots of traffic on the road. How did Johnny like the ride? Debbie (50:26): Oh, fine. Edgar Hellum (50:26): Carol, did you get your camera to work? Carol (50:33): Yes. Edgar Hellum (50:33): Did you get it fixed? What was the matter with it? Carol (50:36): Nothing. We just had to put a film in it. Etta Neal (50:37): Toay. This is Toay. Bob Neal (50:46): What was his first name? Etta Neal (50:48): Grandfather? Bob Neal (50:52): Yeah. John? Richard? Etta Neal (50:58): Dick. Bob Neal (50:59): Well, it must be Richard Rogers then. Etta Neal (51:04): Maybe it was. Bob Neal (51:04): And what was your, what was your grandmother's name? Etta Neal (51:11): I don't know. Bob Neal (51:11): Do you know dad? Charles Neal (51:15): Before my time. Bob Neal (51:15): Well, I thought you probably would have heard them say. Conger Neal (51:20): �Some family isn't it, when you can't find out anything. Was looking in the paper the other day and there was a picture in there of a bunch of people of the name of Neal I had never heard of. There seems to be more Neals in Milwaukee now than there ever have been. A lot of them are black, Negros. Charles Neal (51:52): Mother had one brother. He went out to the gold rush, to California. Etta Neal (51:52): And Ann. His oldest girl was Ann. Bob Neal (51:52): Benjamin. Wasn't that his name? Etta Neal (52:24): Yes. Bob Neal (52:24): Grandma's, your Aunt Jane. Etta Neal (52:24): Yes, that was Will Les' mother Bob Neal (52:24): Will Les' mother. And Aunt Ann. Who were Aunt Ann's children? Etta Neal (52:24): Well, there were a lot of them out there. Aunt Ann Bob Neal (52:24): She was first married to Markham? Etta Neal (52:35): Yes. Bob Neal (52:35): And Charlie Markham was the only child? Etta Neal (52:40): I think so. Bob Neal (52:40): What about Lucy Strong? She was a Markham. Etta Neal (52:47): They were some relation. Bob Neal (52:53): Then what about, there was a Susan? What was her name? Etta Neal (52:58): Press. Bob Neal (52:58): Where did they live? �Etta Neal (52:58): Savannah. Bob Neal (53:00): Any other sisters. Etta Neal (53:06): Yes, Alice. Bob Neal (53:06): Where was she? Who was she? Did she marry? What her name? Etta Neal (53:27): She married your grandfather Neal and then she died. Bob Neal (53:31): And then Grandpa Neal married her sister, Mary, your mother. Etta Neal (53:42): I guess so. I don't know. Bob Neal (53:42): And then just one brother. Benjamin. He's the one that went to California at the time of the gold rush. Did you ever hear from him after he left? Etta Neal (53:55): No. Bob Neal (53:55): I thought Dad said they had one letter? Etta Neal (54:03): No, I don't think. I don't know. Bob Neal (54:17): They had one letter from him. Charles Neal (54:17): That's what I was given to understand. Bob Neal (54:22): did you say Aunt Etta? They had one letter. Etta Neal (54:24): No. Bob Neal (54:24): Never heard from him after he went out West? Charles Neal (54:34): Well I heard, somebody told me, they had one letter and that was the end. They never. Bob Neal (54:34): What year did he go out there? �Charles Neal (54:50): The gold rush. Etta Neal (54:50): '40s. Charles Neal (54:50): '48 I guess it was. Etta Neal (54:50): Somewhere around there. � Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource 1958 - Neal, Nohr, Jacka Interview https://mineralpointlibraryarchives.org/omeka/files/original/2850a46cce2649eff0c6778e89a6a906.jpg b189d2970396e98a284d6491107ec279 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Historical https://mineralpointlibraryarchives.org/omeka/files/original/7c37d8d7f70a88dc370c0c1cf08be1df.jpg 9a25995bc8fcfd97a9a4c1e260318328 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Before restoration https://mineralpointlibraryarchives.org/omeka/files/original/79ccb979ac4d26f4a33a2086de3e1919.jpg 5d875f8115c76f88d1d1f71b2a6525a9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource During restoration https://mineralpointlibraryarchives.org/omeka/files/original/25ab01a373d6c471817361fa3895c178.jpg fcf4bdf16b76f38d6b7e59bb740de162 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource During restoration https://mineralpointlibraryarchives.org/omeka/files/original/6d5ab0ee3e79b4312c8b4496fdd51221.jpg 6da82be4b2a38e3fea2e944ced7e0dc2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource After restoration Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pendarvis and Trelawny https://mineralpointlibraryarchives.org/omeka/files/original/c63904a6962687e55378a6da99cb9a86.jpg 8f2900a6367346330416f93d6cf6c7f9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Polperro - historical https://mineralpointlibraryarchives.org/omeka/files/original/3b010167f333ccaf1b81444c87874d5c.jpg 5d48073c064110deff20be1640987737 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Polperro - before restoration https://mineralpointlibraryarchives.org/omeka/files/original/2756d6f4e1eaa2868bd7b9a9164aa39b.jpg 6c6790270a8732316039f7368ae82b96 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Polperro - during restoration https://mineralpointlibraryarchives.org/omeka/files/original/c55d4af931f08521d8925a00b67f37a7.jpg 204c9a5f0df4fb2d06f8d21c7b41eb66 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Polperro - during restoration https://mineralpointlibraryarchives.org/omeka/files/original/42394c9ef32f95306953c93a32fe46f8.jpg 5d951424a927effba5c6454d821c4f98 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Polperro - during restoration https://mineralpointlibraryarchives.org/omeka/files/original/d9c1c6e7362bed789b1dfcf672df9f7a.jpg b1f06bd72e9ac8637ea58be66c418b2c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Polperro - after restoration Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Polperro Restoration https://mineralpointlibraryarchives.org/omeka/files/original/efe6d8e892e786619fe9d453059bf76d.jpg ee6c09649b49f072dad93dd0a2d1d789 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Tamblyn's Row - historical https://mineralpointlibraryarchives.org/omeka/files/original/e0017b2e2661e1399da31b90bfad0e00.jpg 450abafb8b532dad0bb095ba65d7c90c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Tamblyn's Row - before restoration https://mineralpointlibraryarchives.org/omeka/files/original/7fdeec434ffe08759fe3e8ef741cb3be.jpg d5d4b9e7373af316544591b7921014d6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Tamblyn's Row - during restoration https://mineralpointlibraryarchives.org/omeka/files/original/9a9790ff3803c82907721850fdc63698.jpg 9e5299e1ee317e1d5130ece4d628abe0 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Tamblyn's Row - during restoration https://mineralpointlibraryarchives.org/omeka/files/original/458e42aa6a789e1d149753cb7be18f20.jpg 760ea791ab96782c01d8be1ec0a0b201 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Tamblyn's Row - after restoration Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Tamblyn’s Row Restoration