1 10 556 https://mineralpointlibraryarchives.org/omeka/files/original/44661da883ed8edd4b762ff12ea21144.m4a aa50eca1815bc5cb20685be51054eafd Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pendarvis Interview - Part I https://mineralpointlibraryarchives.org/omeka/files/original/8fb901bf82675248d26f9d3784ac055b.pdf 226e2f3f4bedb854195b7a4d58d63a82 PDF Text Text Liz Holmes (00:00:01): That was my grandmother's and that was my mother's, and these two are his mother's and so forth and so on, so it's a ... Jack Holzhueter (00:00:07): Well, you've got very nice things, furniture ... Liz Holmes (00:00:07): Well you know ...l Jack Holzhueter (00:01:25): Testing. Yes, it's working now. Well, for beginners, uh my name is Jack Holzhueter and this is my voice. Uh now, Mr. Penberthy. Roy Penberthy (00:01:35): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (00:01:35): What is your name and how long have you lived in Mineral Point? Roy Penberthy (00:01:38): I've lived in Mineral all my life. And uh this picture I have here of the [Larson] Hotel is where I was born. And my folks built this other building a half a block away, and I've been there all my life. Jack Holzhueter (00:01:50): In the same location? Roy Penberthy (00:01:52): Yes. Jack Holzhueter (00:01:52): That's more ... Since about the turn of the century? Roy Penberthy (00:01:56): Yeah. Yeah, a little ... Yeah, that's right. Jack Holzhueter (00:01:58): Around then. And uh how many children were there in your family? Roy Penberthy (00:02:03): Five, four brothers andJack Holzhueter (00:02:05): �And yourself. Roy Penberthy (00:02:06): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (00:02:07): Okay. Um and you, Mr. Neal. Your name and age if you wish to tell us, and how long have you been at Mineral Point? Bob Neal (00:02:14): Well, Robert Neal, I was born and raised here too. So, Roy and I are old, old inhabitants. You know? Jack Holzhueter (00:02:26): You've lived in a few more places though than Mr. Penberthy. Bob Neal (00:02:29): Yes. Jack Holzhueter (00:02:29): He's been in one spot for a long time. Bob Neal (00:02:32): Yeah. Well, I left Mineral Point in 1928 for Chicago and points East, and then returned in 1933. The World's Fair was '33? Yes. Roy Penberthy (00:02:55): Yeah, I would say. Yeah. Bob Neal (00:02:57): Yeah. Well, I've been gone longer than that. What am I talking about? Well, the ... When I left Mineral Point I came back in '33. I remember that because I went to the World's Fair. That's only uh five years, I thought I was gone seven. Jack Holzhueter (00:03:17): Well ... Bob Neal (00:03:19): Give or take two years. Jack Holzhueter (00:03:23): When did you get interested in Mineral Point's past? Bob Neal (00:03:26): �Well, having lived here you can't help but get interested in it and ... When I came back from London, I saw so many of the houses gone. I wanted to save one, so uh walking out Brewery Street as we called it then Roy, it never was known as Shakerag. Roy Penberthy (00:03:51): No. Bob Neal (00:03:51): It was always Brewery Street. And uh I bought one of them just to save it. So many of them were destroyed in my absence. Jack Holzhueter (00:04:02): Not because you were gone, but why were they taken down? Bob Neal (00:04:05): Well, they had just served their purpose and weren't modern in any event. No electricity, no water and they just served their purpose. They were deteriorating and people who wanted rock for foundations just said get a new house or buy an old house and wreck it and use the rock. I figured out at one time there were 70 houses in the general area at the peak of the uh in the inhabitants of the area and it just deteriorated till there were, I think, about 13 left. Jack Holzhueter (00:04:58): Um 70, you say the area, you mean the, the brewery andBob Neal (00:05:02): Oh I mean, I mean bounding Spruce Street, uh West, North Commerce, and Shakerag. It's a triangle, and in that area there were, I figured, there were 70 houses. Jack Holzhueter (00:05:21): Do you remember about the same kind of thing Mr. Penberthy? Roy Penberthy (00:05:23): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yes, I do. Uh-huh. Jack Holzhueter (00:05:26): Um. When were your parents or grandparents or aunts or uncles responsible ever for whetting your interest in, in Point's past? Bob Neal (00:05:38): No. Roy Penberthy (00:05:38): No. �Bob Neal (00:05:38): Not in mine. Roy Penberthy (00:05:38): Mine either, no. Jack Holzhueter (00:05:41): Oh. I've always been told that you, Mr. Neal, began to pick things off junk piles and whatnot when you were a child, is thatBob Neal (00:05:48): Well, I started carting stuff home when, when I was, I guess, in high school. Roy Penberthy (00:05:56): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (00:05:57): What kind of stuff? Bob Neal (00:06:02): Well, things that I just wanted to save or liked. Amongst them the territorial strongbox, which we have to do something about. Uh things that I didn't want to see destroyed, and I'd just bring them home and I was accused of carting junk home. Jack Holzhueter (00:06:25): But you've saved it all to this day. Were you similarly inclined Mr. Penberthy? Roy Penberthy (00:06:30): Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:06:30): Haul junk home? Roy Penberthy (00:06:32): Oh no, no, not that. No. I ... My father was a veterinarian and I was associated with horses more or less all through my life. Jack Holzhueter (00:06:42): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Roy Penberthy (00:06:43): I had a show horse up to about seven years ago. �Jack Holzhueter (00:06:48): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Roy Penberthy (00:06:49): Happiest days of my life. Jack Holzhueter (00:06:50): With show horses? Roy Penberthy (00:06:51): Yes. Mm-hmm (affirmative). And had my father lived, I would had to have been a veterinarian and I wouldn't have liked it. Jack Holzhueter (00:06:59): Why not? Roy Penberthy (00:06:59): Oh, I can't stand to see anything suffering and that. For example, I went to uh work at a grocery store after I finished high school and one day the butcher said to me, "Roy, I want you to help me butcher this afternoon." I said, "Listen, I have never saw anything killed in my life and I don't want to help." He said, "I'll show you what to do." So, I went down and in the back of the store they had a big cement platform and there was a ring in the bottom. They brought in this calf with a big rope and a halter. They put it through that ring and pulled his head down tight. He said, "All you have to do is hold that rope tight while I whack it over the head." I said, "I'm not holding that rope for you to whack that calf over the head." And I left it go and I went up to ... I thought, well I'll lose my job but I don't care. So, that was my experience with that. Roy Penberthy (00:07:45): I never did like to see anything killed. Years ago when there used to be chickens crossing the road, I'd slow up to let them go by. You know, a lot of people would go faster to see how many they could get. Jack Holzhueter (00:07:55): But your interest in Point history then is just because you have a good memory and you were interested in it. You've accumulated all of this as time has passed? Roy Penberthy (00:08:03): Yep. Yes, mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (00:08:05): Rather more than going into the junk piles and pulling things out and taking home and preserving it. Roy Penberthy (00:08:10): No, I never did that. No. �Jack Holzhueter (00:08:10): It's more a mental act for you. Um alright, today we wanted to talk specifically about uh Pendarvis, but stories about butchering at grocery stores ... Where was this grocery store by the way? Roy Penberthy (00:08:25): Right on Commerce Street, uh about half a block from where I live there. Right on Commerce Street. Uh three brothers owned it. They had a tremendous business. They had charge accounts and delivery service and just had tremendousBob Neal (00:08:37): Jeuck's? Roy Penberthy (00:08:37): Yes. Bob Neal (00:08:37): I didn't know they butchered. Was Ted Hardly there then? Roy Penberthy (00:08:43): Yeah, Ted Hardly was the butcher. Yes, uh-huh. Yep. Jack Holzhueter (00:08:48): How long did you stay there? Roy Penberthy (00:08:49): Uh three years I think it was. Then I went away to school. Jack Holzhueter (00:08:54): And then you came back. Roy Penberthy (00:08:55): Then I came back. I was, yeah, I mean I was called back because the manager went kind of haywire and I had to take over. I went to Racine College. Jack Holzhueter (00:09:05): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Roy Penberthy (00:09:05): And uh I've been here ever since. Jack Holzhueter (00:09:08): Did you go to school Mr. Uh Neal? �Bob Neal (00:09:11): Yes. When I was in university I went in the Art Institute in Chicago and the University of London. Jack Holzhueter (00:09:18): Hm, did you study art? Bob Neal (00:09:21): Yes, more or less, artistic things. No academic courses as such. Jack Holzhueter (00:09:31): No art history, but fine arts. Bob Neal (00:09:33): No, fine arts, yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:09:34): Execution of fine arts. Alright, um principally we are interested in the background of of Pendarvis uh itself and the immediate neighborhood. Uh what was the place like at that end of town? At the corner of what is now called Shakerag and Spruce at the time of your first recollections? Since you're, I think, the elder of the two Mr. Penberthy, why don't you start? Roy Penberthy (00:10:06): Did you know I was older than Bob? Jack Holzhueter (00:10:08): We were told that, uh a little, uh another old timer in Mineral Point. Roy Penberthy (00:10:11): I'm really not much older really. Bob Neal (00:10:12): What? Roy Penberthy (00:10:15): How old did you say you are? I lie about my age all the time. I do. Bob Neal (00:10:20): You do? Roy Penberthy (00:10:20): Yeah. Down in Monroe, when I had to go to the hospital, I lied five years about my age. Jack Holzhueter (00:10:24): �Good for you. Roy Penberthy (00:10:24): And you know something else? Uh when you get the grocery at a discount you know? I wouldn't, I'd rather pay the full amount than say I was 62 or whatever it was, 65. Jack Holzhueter (00:10:36): Well, Laura Nohr is the one who let me in on the fact that you're a little older than Mr. Neal. Roy Penberthy (00:10:40): Yeah, yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:10:41): Alright, umRoy Penberthy (00:10:43): Well, there used to be a foundry in that area, which wasn't operating, Lanyon's Foundry. Bob Neal (00:10:48): Yeah, but that wasRoy Penberthy (00:10:52): Huh? Bob Neal (00:10:52): Wearne's, Wearne's Foundry was down there on Shakerag. Roy Penberthy (00:10:54): Well, Lanyon too there. Bob Neal (00:10:57): Oh, I didn't know that. Roy Penberthy (00:10:57): Right at the row of houses. Right in there. Bob Neal (00:11:01): I thought Lanyon's Foundry was overRoy Penberthy (00:11:02): And there was a blacksmith shop across the road, do you remember that? Bob Neal (00:11:05): �You're all mixed up Roy. Roy Penberthy (00:11:06): Mm-mm (negative). Bob Neal (00:11:10): There was never anything on the east side of Shakerag across from Pendarvis. Roy Penberthy (00:11:11): No, that's notBob Neal (00:11:11): It's not veryRoy Penberthy (00:11:12): No, not across from Pendarvis. Bob Neal (00:11:13): That's what he's asking about. Jack Holzhueter (00:11:14): No, just on that corner. More or less that intersection down there. Roy Penberthy (00:11:22): Oh, I see. Oh, I beg your pardon. Jack Holzhueter (00:11:23): Either side of the street, doesn't make any difference. Bob Neal (00:11:25): Well, was Sammie Webb still around when you were a kid? Roy Penberthy (00:11:29): Who? Bob Neal (00:11:29): Sammie Webb? Roy Penberthy (00:11:30): I never heard of him. Bob Neal (00:11:32): Because he had the pop factory there where Soderstrom's house is. �Roy Penberthy (00:11:36): I didn't know that either. I spent many a day at Soderstrom's. They had three boys, we were about the same age, and I spent many a day out there. Bob Neal (00:11:43): Well, Sammie Webb had a pop factory there. Roy Penberthy (00:11:47): He did? Bob Neal (00:11:48): And he used the spring that's on the property to make the pop. Roy Penberthy (00:11:51): Oh. Jack Holzhueter (00:11:51): Where was the pop factory? Bob Neal (00:11:53): In uh what's now Bill Kitto's house. Roy Penberthy (00:11:57): Right. Jack Holzhueter (00:11:58): Uh-huh. Roy Penberthy (00:11:59): The corner of Spruce and Shakerag. Bob Neal (00:12:00): Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:12:00): Yep. The opposite corner, the opposite side. Bob Neal (00:12:02): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (00:12:04): So, that was a pop factory. Then going down the street from Mr. Kitto's house towards uh the center part of town, what was- �Bob Neal (00:12:11): Who was there where Mrs. Esch lived? Roy Penberthy (00:12:13): Mrs. Esch? Oh, a Smith. She was a Smith. Bob Neal (00:12:18): Who? Mrs. Esch was? Roy Penberthy (00:12:18): Wasn't she? Yeah. And he worked at the brewery. Don't you remember he used to drive that brewery truck, or the horse wagon rather. Bob Neal (00:12:28): Who? Mr. Smith did orRoy Penberthy (00:12:30): Mr. Smith, yeah. I don't know what his first name was. That's another thing, we ... I never knew what the older people's first name was. It was always mister so and so, or missus so and so. When my sister and I were talking the other evening, I said what was Mr. Adams first name? And that was in the first house here around the corner, right there. And neither one of us could think of his first name. And I said well you know why don't you, and she said no I don't. I said, we never called older people by their first names, Mr. Adams it was. Bob Neal (00:12:55): Ed Adams. Ed Adams. Jack Holzhueter (00:12:57): That's right. Roy Penberthy (00:12:58): And we used to tip our hats to the men teachers in high school, you know? Scared to death of them. Jack Holzhueter (00:13:02): When did you stop wearing a hat? Roy Penberthy (00:13:04): Oh, I don't know, it's years. I I haven't worn a hat in years. Jack Holzhueter (00:13:10): Okay. So there was a pop factory. Uh where did people ... Now, going up the street towards the brewery. Who lived along in there, did you know, when you were children? �Roy Penberthy (00:13:25): Sammy Mills. Bob Neal (00:13:28): Who lived in theRoy Penberthy (00:13:29): And GobyBob Neal (00:13:30): The three story log house, Roy. Who lived in the three story log house? Roy Penberthy (00:13:35): I, I don't recall. Jack Holzhueter (00:13:39): What about the little cottage in Pendarvis? Roy Penberthy (00:13:42): Uh about the first house there, I don't know their names. The Goby's lived there. Bob Neal (00:13:45): Oh, the Goby'sRoy Penberthy (00:13:46): The house of ill fame, don't you know? Bob Neal (00:13:48): Yes. Roy Penberthy (00:13:49): And umJack Holzhueter (00:13:50): Polperro this is? Bob Neal (00:13:52): No. You're talking about Pendarvis now. Roy Penberthy (00:13:54): Yeah that'sJack Holzhueter (00:13:54): �Oh, okay. Bob Neal (00:13:54): That's, that was Sam [Biango's]. Roy Penberthy (00:13:57): Yes, that's right. But, they moved to Beloit, and when Hazel, the daughter, came back it wasn't Goby anymore, it was Gabee. They changed the accents, you know, Gabee, Hazel Gabee. Jack Holzhueter (00:14:09): When, about when was that? Roy Penberthy (00:14:10): Oh gee, I don't know. I don't know dates. Jack Holzhueter (00:14:13): Okay. And then next to that? Roy Penberthy (00:14:14): Next to that, well, it was uh ... Coming this way? Coming to the pub? Jack Holzhueter (00:14:19): No, going towards the brewery. Bob Neal (00:14:21): Going towards the brewery. Roy Penberthy (00:14:21): Towards the brewery. Bob Neal (00:14:22): KieffersRoy Penberthy (00:14:22): Well, that Sammy Mills lived in there. Bob Neal (00:14:24): No, KieffersRoy Penberthy (00:14:24): Huh? Bob Neal (00:14:27): �Kieffers lived in the two story. Roy Penberthy (00:14:29): Who? Bob Neal (00:14:29): Kieffers, didn't they? Kieffers? Roy Penberthy (00:14:33): I don't know. How do you spell it? Bob Neal (00:14:35): Kieffer, the Kieffers around here. Roy Penberthy (00:14:38): Oh, I didn't know that. I didn't know that, no. Bob Neal (00:14:40): WellRoy Penberthy (00:14:40): [Connor Diestern 00:14:41]. Bob Neal (00:14:40): Yes, so he was farther up. Roy Penberthy (00:14:43): Yes, but not much. And Fanny Toby lived there, the nigger lady. Bob Neal (00:14:48): Well, uh the uh ... Jack Holzhueter (00:14:51): Lived where? Roy Penberthy (00:14:52): Uh right in that area there uh as you go towards the brewery. Jack Holzhueter (00:14:56): Okay. Roy Penberthy (00:14:57): In about the second house around in there. �Bob Neal (00:14:58): Well, the uh the picture that's in the historical society that I saved in this junk as you call it, uhJack Holzhueter (00:15:08): I didn't call it junk. Bob Neal (00:15:11): Uh shows the house north of uh what was Pete, who Pete who lived in theRoy Penberthy (00:15:28): Pete? Quare? Pete Quare? Bob Neal (00:15:28): No. Annie Eckstein's father. Roy Penberthy (00:15:38): Annie Eckstein's father. Annie Seger's father? Bob Neal (00:15:38): Yeah. Roy Penberthy (00:15:39): Yeah. Bob Neal (00:15:39): It was Pete Seger I guess it was. Roy Penberthy (00:15:42): Yeah. Peter Seger, uh-huh. Bob Neal (00:15:43): Lived in there. And before that I think a family by the name of Kieffers lived in there. Roy Penberthy (00:15:47): Oh, I didn't know that. Mrs. Seger had money in her mattress to pay for her funeral expenses. Bob Neal (00:15:54): Yeah, I remember that. Jack Holzhueter (00:15:56): That was one of the houses that's gone now? Roy Penberthy (00:15:58): �Yeah. Bob Neal (00:15:58): No. Roy Penberthy (00:15:59): No. No. Jack Holzhueter (00:16:01): Which house was that? Bob Neal (00:16:02): The two story rock house. Trelawney. Jack Holzhueter (00:16:03): Okay. Bob Neal (00:16:05): The house north of it was Katie Mills I thought. Roy Penberthy (00:16:12): Yeah, Kate, that's right. Bob Neal (00:16:13): And then where was Sammy? Roy Penberthy (00:16:15): Well, he uh she was Sammy's wife. Bob Neal (00:16:19): Well, they lived in the ... And it was a whitewashed front. Mr. Gundry told me they used to whitewash the front of the house. Roy Penberthy (00:16:27): Yeah. Bob Neal (00:16:28): Every year, and went over the front door with bluing. And he said the effect on this weathered wood of this silvery blue and the fresh whitewash, he said you couldn't beat it. Jack Holzhueter (00:16:43): Had you ever seen that done elsewhere? I've never heard of this. It sounds attractive. Bob Neal (00:16:54): �Oh, it was very attractive. Well, they used, they used bluing for uh coloring. Jack Holzhueter (00:16:59): That would have been in the house just north of Pendarvis? Bob Neal (00:17:02): Yeah, yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:17:04): Or rather Trelawny. Bob Neal (00:17:04): And the the picture that's in the archives here shows the house standing and the whitewash is all deteriorated on the front, butRoy Penberthy (00:17:15): Oh. Bob Neal (00:17:16): You can see that it was whitewashed. Roy Penberthy (00:17:17): I don't remember that. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:17:20): And then uh above that was Conrad Yetisen. Roy Penberthy (00:17:23): Yes. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:17:25): And the root house in back of it, where he lived in the winter. Roy Penberthy (00:17:30): Yes. Bob Neal (00:17:30): Did you ever hear of thisRoy Penberthy (00:17:31): Yes, mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:17:33): �He'd put on his coat and go in the root house and I don't know what kind of heat he had, but he used to stop at Jeuck's and get some food, ConradRoy Penberthy (00:17:44): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:17:45): And uh come out and crawl in the root house. And then Johnny Francis lived up where the Lieder's. The next houseRoy Penberthy (00:17:55): Johnny Francis, the ex-sheriff? Bob Neal (00:17:58): I don't know about that, the Francis family was related toRoy Penberthy (00:18:02): Francis and ... Kislingbury. Bob Neal (00:18:02): Kislingburys. Roy Penberthy (00:18:02): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Uh yes. Bob Neal (00:18:09): Uh well there are photographsRoy Penberthy (00:18:11): Do you happen to know a rock and all woodsy around it, don't you remember? Bob Neal (00:18:13): Yeah. Roy Penberthy (00:18:14): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:18:14): And big pine trees in front. Roy Penberthy (00:18:14): Yeah. Bob Neal (00:18:17): �Huge pine trees. Jack Holzhueter (00:18:18): Now, how far up the street was that? Bob Neal (00:18:21): Well, it's the next house north. Jack Holzhueter (00:18:23): So, it would be where that uh where currently stands the ranch house with a brick lower story andBob Neal (00:18:29): No, that'sRoy Penberthy (00:18:29): The next house, the next place. Bob Neal (00:18:32): Next place. Roy Penberthy (00:18:33): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (00:18:33): Uh a farmhouse. Roy Penberthy (00:18:33): Yeah. Bob Neal (00:18:33): The ranch house is onRoy Penberthy (00:18:37): The very next place north of that. Bob Neal (00:18:38): Way up on the uh way up on theJack Holzhueter (00:18:42): Okay. I see. Do you remember where the, that new place is now, there being a house there? Roy Penberthy (00:18:47): No. �Bob Neal (00:18:48): I don't think there ever was. Roy Penberthy (00:18:49): That's where Sammy Goby's barn was. Jack Holzhueter (00:18:51): Okay. There were actually ... The early records will show that uh Mr. Moyle did, or Richard Moyle did build a house there that later became Walter Darlington's. Uh Mr. Kislingbury, who owned the original large parcel, I think it's wise to interject some of this so that we don't get confused, um was rather off handed in his real estate transactions. A couple of court cases in the 1850s proved this. And Moyle went off to northern Michigan and he sold the house to Walter Darlington. And it was still standing on the 1870 maps that we have. And there was a little bitty shed like arrangement, exactly on the street, there wasn't any sidewalk that went by it. Where the white frame and red brick place is. Bob Neal (00:19:43): Moyle and Darlington are names that are unknown to me. Roy Penberthy (00:19:47): Unknown to me too, I never knew them. Jack Holzhueter (00:19:49): Well, Emily Darlington you may have heard of, a daughter of Darlington. He died and his widow remarried, I forgotten who. And she, Emily, was a seamstress here in town well into the 1880s and '90s we find her name. She doesn't ring a bell? Roy Penberthy (00:20:08): Not a bell, no. Bob Neal (00:20:08): No. Roy Penberthy (00:20:08): No. Jack Holzhueter (00:20:09): Alright, that's that's fine. Now, let's go up Spruce Street. Roy Penberthy (00:20:15): Okay. Jack Holzhueter (00:20:19): The pop factory on the one corner. �Roy Penberthy (00:20:21): Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:20:22): Uh who lived in what we call the Bowden House, the one that Bill Kitto sold before he bought the pop factory? Um the rock house. Bob Neal (00:20:34): Oh, that's the east end of theJack Holzhueter (00:20:34): Right. Bob Neal (00:20:38): East end of the row. Jack Holzhueter (00:20:39): No, across the street we'll stay across the street from the row for just a second or two and then go the row itself. Do you remember? Bob Neal (00:20:50): No, I don't. Sam Holmes (00:20:51): Kitto has his, had his studio there Bob. Bob Neal (00:20:53): I know. Roy Penberthy (00:20:54): Who? Who had it? Sam Holmes (00:20:55): Bill Kitto had a studio at it. Roy Penberthy (00:20:56): Oh, I didn't know that. Bob Neal (00:20:57): There uh who lived in there uh, Finkelmeyer? Roy Penberthy (00:21:04): I don't know. �Jack Holzhueter (00:21:05): The Bowden's were not associated with it in your recollection? Roy Penberthy (00:21:09): No. Bob Neal (00:21:09): No. Jack Holzhueter (00:21:10): Okay. Then on the other side of the street. Roy Penberthy (00:21:13): The the other side of the street uh Christopher Day, they had a repair shop didn't he? Bob Neal (00:21:16): Yeah. Kid Day. Roy Penberthy (00:21:18): Yeah. Bob Neal (00:21:18): Kid Day. Roy Penberthy (00:21:18): Yeah, Kid Day. Jack Holzhueter (00:21:20): What kind of repair shop? Bob Neal (00:21:21): Shoes. Roy Penberthy (00:21:22): Shoes. Jack Holzhueter (00:21:24): Were there any grocery stores or anything like that? Bob Neal (00:21:25): Not that I know. Roy Penberthy (00:21:25): �Just shoes. And they had a lot of stuffed birds in there, do you remember that? Open porch then went straight up, and then the back tapered like that. Jack Holzhueter (00:21:36): Well that's where um Jill Freeman from the historical society did some digging. Bob Neal (00:21:42): Yeah, they did a lot of it, digging there. Roy Penberthy (00:21:43): Oh, was it? Jack Holzhueter (00:21:44): Right. She interviewed you and you're enshrined in her notes Mr. Penberthy. So is Mr. Neal of course. But that was the first structure. Roy Penberthy (00:21:52): I see. Jack Holzhueter (00:21:53): For the, that you recall there. Roy Penberthy (00:21:56): Yes. Jack Holzhueter (00:21:56): Then go up hill from there, towards the Row. Roy Penberthy (00:21:59): Let's see. Well, the nextBob Neal (00:22:02): Is there a house way in the back, Roy? There was a foundation back there. Roy Penberthy (00:22:07): Back of what? Jack Holzhueter (00:22:07): Kid Day. Bob Neal (00:22:09): Back of Kid Days. Roy Penberthy (00:22:11): �Oh yes, there was. I think there was. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:22:13): But I, I don't know anything about it. Roy Penberthy (00:22:15): No, I don't either, but I do think there was a house. Bob Neal (00:22:17): There, the stone steps are still there buried in the dirt. Roy Penberthy (00:22:20): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:22:20): They were completely covered over. Roy Penberthy (00:22:21): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:22:21): I've always intended when I was out there to dig those out. Roy Penberthy (00:22:26): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:22:28): So you would see them, but uh, they uh, then they went up to this house in the back. Roy Penberthy (00:22:35): Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative). I don't recall the house either. Jack Holzhueter (00:22:40): Do you recall nothing thenRoy Penberthy (00:22:42): No. Jack Holzhueter (00:22:42): Between the Row and the shoe shop? Roy Penberthy (00:22:46): No. �Bob Neal (00:22:48): No. There wouldn't have been much space there. Jack Holzhueter (00:22:50): Well, there was another 30 foot lot in there that uh, on which there was a house originally owned by somebody named Gregory Phillips, who built it around 1847 or a little earlier. Probably a log place that was abandoned and sold for taxes, that lot, in 1860s during the war. Mr. Gregory Phillips, and we don't know how he's related to the other Phillips. Roy Penberthy (00:23:15): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (00:23:15): It went out to theBob Neal (00:23:17): Did Shady Phillips live out there all of his life? Roy Penberthy (00:23:21): Where did he live? Bob Neal (00:23:21): On the Row? Roy Penberthy (00:23:24): I didn't know that. I didn't know ShadyBob Neal (00:23:26): You know Shady Phillips. Roy Penberthy (00:23:27): Oh, sure I knew him well, sure, but I didn't know where he lived. Bob Neal (00:23:30): Well, I thought he lived out there. Roy Penberthy (00:23:32): Oh. Bob Neal (00:23:33): He had a daughter, Genevieve. Roy Penberthy (00:23:35): �Yeah, Genevieve. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. I just saw her this year too. Bob Neal (00:23:39): You did? Roy Penberthy (00:23:39): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Lovely girl. Jack Holzhueter (00:23:43): Where is she? Roy Penberthy (00:23:44): Uh I don't know. She said, I don't recall. Jack Holzhueter (00:23:47): What's her last name now? Roy Penberthy (00:23:49): I don't know that either. Bob Neal (00:23:50): Where'd you see her Roy? Roy Penberthy (00:23:52): She came down to see me. Bob Neal (00:23:53): Oh. Roy Penberthy (00:23:53): Down at my place. Genevieve Phillips, her mother was a Goldsworthy. Jack Holzhueter (00:23:58): Oh. Roy Penberthy (00:24:02): And uhBob Neal (00:24:03): Well, the Goldsworthy'sRoy Penberthy (00:24:05): �Charlie Goldsworthy, she was Charlie Goldsworthy's daughter and she married um this guy, what was his name? Bob Neal (00:24:11): Shady Phillips. Roy Penberthy (00:24:11): Shady Phillips, yeah. And Genevieve had one girl, Genevieve was the only daughter. And she died real young, the mother died real young and Shady built a uh monument out in the cemetery himself, and allBob Neal (00:24:24): Is that that barrel shaped rock thing out there? Roy Penberthy (00:24:26): Yeah, that's right. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. Bob Neal (00:24:29): Uh Roy, the Goldsworthy's ... The house that burned. Do you remember the house way back, sort of back of the Row? The Goldsworthy's house that burned? Roy Penberthy (00:24:43): No, I don't remember that. Bob Neal (00:24:44): There's all cement ... Well, I don't know. I guess maybe it's all taken out, but they had cement walks around it. I remember the house burning. You don't remember that? Roy Penberthy (00:24:52): No. No, I don't either. No. Jack Holzhueter (00:24:54): Uh Mr. Gold ... The Goldsworthys were related to the Tamblyns. Do you know about that? Roy Penberthy (00:24:59): Tamblyn, doesn't ring a bell. Bob Neal (00:24:59): Isaac Tamblyn. Roy Penberthy (00:25:07): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Isaac, Issac Tamblyn, huh? Bob Neal (00:25:07): Yeah. �Jack Holzhueter (00:25:09): His daughter married a Goldsworthy. Roy Penberthy (00:25:11): Oh? No, I I I've heard the name. I just can't remember, I don't remember him. Jack Holzhueter (00:25:13): No heBob Neal (00:25:16): Well, I don't know why, how that got the name of Tamblyn's Row. Roy Penberthy (00:25:22): I don't either, because theJack Holzhueter (00:25:23): Well, we do. Bob Neal (00:25:23): Well, Tamblyn's RowRoy Penberthy (00:25:27): Yeah. Bob Neal (00:25:28): Was that down there where the foundry was, is now. Roy Penberthy (00:25:32): Oh. Bob Neal (00:25:32): Where Summers is. Roy Penberthy (00:25:37): Yeah. Bob Neal (00:25:37): Do you remember that long row of houses? Roy Penberthy (00:25:37): Yes, I sure do. Bob Neal (00:25:38): �Well, wasn't that Tamblyn's Row? Roy Penberthy (00:25:40): No, we just called it the Row. I don't know. Jack Holzhueter (00:25:42): Was this on Shakerag? Bob Neal (00:25:43): Yes. Jack Holzhueter (00:25:44): Up towards town? Bob Neal (00:25:46): Yeah. Roy Penberthy (00:25:46): Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:25:46): It was a row of frame houses? Bob Neal (00:25:49): Yeah. Roy Penberthy (00:25:49): Yes. Jack Holzhueter (00:25:50): We have a photograph of it. Bob Neal (00:25:53): Buried into the hill. I have the watercolor. I wanted to buy that house. Roy Penberthy (00:25:56): Oh. Did you know something? There was a lady who came from up in Minnesota. She used to live there. Uh she wanted to see the place once more, and she was in terrible health, you know, the poor thing. And uh she said the place faced north. Well, that threw me for a while because it faced east, you know? Bob Neal (00:26:11): Yeah. Roy Penberthy (00:26:12): �And um the place was torn down anyways, she couldn't have seen it. She came all the way from Minnesota just to see her old home once more. Jack Holzhueter (00:26:19): This was which, the other row? Roy Penberthy (00:26:22): The row, the row. Um. Bob Neal (00:26:24): Down Shakerag. Roy Penberthy (00:26:24): And then we rented the pasture there for years for our horses and that, and uhBob Neal (00:26:30): What pasture Roy, there was Wearne'sRoy Penberthy (00:26:31): Well this was Wearne's pasture. Bob Neal (00:26:34): Oh. Roy Penberthy (00:26:34): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (00:26:36): But that had been torn down about when? Roy Penberthy (00:26:38): Oh gee, I don't know. I don't know. Bob Neal (00:26:39): Well, do you remember the the building that was the foundry? The Wearne Foundry there? Roy Penberthy (00:26:45): Yes. That's the one I was trying to tell you about. Bob Neal (00:26:47): Well, you said Lanyon. Roy Penberthy (00:26:49): �Oh, did I say that? Yeah, I thoughtBob Neal (00:26:51): It's Wearne. Roy Penberthy (00:26:51): I thought it was Lanyon. Bob Neal (00:26:52): And the Wearne house is up on the hill. Roy Penberthy (00:26:54): Yes, yes that's right. That's right. Jack Holzhueter (00:26:57): Wearne is spelled how? Bob Neal (00:26:57): W-E-A-R-N-E. Roy Penberthy (00:27:00): Yeah. Mrs. Hales was the daughter wasn't she? Bob Neal (00:27:01): Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:27:02): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:27:03): Uh Joe Lang told me that, as a kid, they evidently had a shake roof on the foundry. And when they were running the furnace or something to melt the iron, he was hired for a nickel a day to sit on the roof with a bucket of water and as the sparks came out of the low chimney and landed on the roof, he was supposed to pour waterRoy Penberthy (00:27:29): Oh yeah. Bob Neal (00:27:29): A dipper of water on them. Roy Penberthy (00:27:32): Do you remember the blacksmith shop that was right across the road from that, McMurrow's? �Bob Neal (00:27:35): Yes. Roy Penberthy (00:27:36): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:27:36): Yeah. Roy Penberthy (00:27:37): Yep. Bob Neal (00:27:38): Well didn't McMurrow's build Loretta's house? Roy Penberthy (00:27:40): No. I don't know. Bob Neal (00:27:42): You told meRoy Penberthy (00:27:43): Let's see. Now wait a minute. Bob Neal (00:27:43): Yes, you did. Roy Penberthy (00:27:44): Yeah, I remember McMurrow. Yeah, I think so. Roy McMurrow was his son. I was named after him, by the way. Bob Neal (00:27:50): Oh, you are older than me. Roy Penberthy (00:27:55): Yeah. I'll tell you else something, the crick used to be a real deep crick there and I learned to swim right at the ... as it made the corner right by Loretta's barn? Bob Neal (00:28:01): Yeah. Roy Penberthy (00:28:01): And it was that deep in that creek, and there's hardly anything there now. �Bob Neal (00:28:05): No. Jack Holzhueter (00:28:08): I wonder why? Roy Penberthy (00:28:10): I don't know where that water went. Bob Neal (00:28:10): WellJack Holzhueter (00:28:12): Well, there's a dam up stream of it wasn't there? Roy Penberthy (00:28:13): Oh, the brewery. The brewery had a dam. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:28:16): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (00:28:16): In the '90s it would appear that a lake was put in there. Bob Neal (00:28:20): Oh. Jack Holzhueter (00:28:20): And a city park established. Bob Neal (00:28:22): Oh. Jack Holzhueter (00:28:23): Where the, where the park is now. Roy Penberthy (00:28:24): Yes. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:28:27): In the '90s? No. Roy Penberthy (00:28:28): �No, it wasn't. It was later than that, much later. Bob Neal (00:28:28): Oh, it was World War I. Roy Penberthy (00:28:28): Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:28:28): That was when the lake was put in? Roy Penberthy (00:28:33): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:28:33): Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:28:34): Okay. Well, alright, we've done ... Up the hill then came the Row. Uh getting back to Spruce Street. Um what did the Row look like at your earliest recollections? Roy Penberthy (00:28:49): Well, it didn't change much as I recall. Bob Neal (00:28:51): No. Roy Penberthy (00:28:51): It didn't change a great deal. Bob Neal (00:28:52): We tore down that big frameRoy Penberthy (00:28:55): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:28:57): Addition that was tacked on the west end of it. Roy Penberthy (00:29:00): On the west end. That's where Effie Early lived wasn't it? Bob Neal (00:29:03): �No. It's where uh Annie Holmes lived. Roy Penberthy (00:29:08): Oh. Bob Neal (00:29:09): No, not Annie Holmes. Annie Holmes lived in the uh rock part. Roy Penberthy (00:29:17): Oh. Jack Holzhueter (00:29:18): The center part? Bob Neal (00:29:19): In the center part. She just rented, she never owned it. Roy Penberthy (00:29:22): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:29:23): And when we bought it, we had to put her out. Roy Penberthy (00:29:26): Yeah. Say, do you know something? One time there was a very dignified salesman calling on me and poor old Annie came in and she was dressed terrible, you know, the poor thing. And she goes, well who's dead? And I told her that ... I had the ambulance and hearse service here. I serviced 12 funeral homes in three counties, that was my work. And she goes, who's dead? And I told her. The poor thing was dressed terrible, her stockings were all twisted and all, just awful. And when she went out, the the traveling man said to me, "Who in the world is that?". And I told him. And, how could you be so nice to her? I'd be nice to her no matter who was here, and I would. I don't believe in putting people down further than what they are, I give them a raise and raise them up. Jack Holzhueter (00:30:11): So, she lived in the center section? Roy Penberthy (00:30:13): Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:30:13): Who lived on the, in the right hand house, the east house? Roy Penberthy (00:30:19): I don't know. I don't know about that at all. �Bob Neal (00:30:20): Well Kate Schmidt lived there at the end. Roy Penberthy (00:30:23): Who? Bob Neal (00:30:23): Kate Schmidt. Roy Penberthy (00:30:24): Oh, Kate Schmidt. Yeah, that's right. She married a Basting didn't she? Bob Neal (00:30:28): She was a Brick wasn't she? Roy Penberthy (00:30:30): Yeah, she was a Brick. Um, well, no, her sister married Basting, that's the way? Bob Neal (00:30:34): Yeah. Roy Penberthy (00:30:36): They lived in the east side. Bob Neal (00:30:37): Yeah. Roy Penberthy (00:30:37): The east part. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:30:39): The guy, we bought the east side from Kate Schmidt, but I don't have any recollection of who lived there before Kate Schmidt. Roy Penberthy (00:30:50): I don't either. I don't know. Bob Neal (00:30:52): Or in the center part, other than Shady Phillips and Genevieve Phillips lived in there. Roy Penberthy (00:30:59): Mm-hmm (affirmative). �Jack Holzhueter (00:30:59): Then where did the Earlys live? The black family that everybody mentions. Roy Penberthy (00:31:03): Right in there. Right in there, as I recall. Bob Neal (00:31:05): No. Edgar's house is Ed and Effie Early's. Edgar's houseRoy Penberthy (00:31:12): Oh, oh yeah. I believe that's right. Well, in later years didn't they live down there in the row in that west part? Bob Neal (00:31:17): No. I think Effie died up ... She was living up in Edgar's house when she died. Roy Penberthy (00:31:24): Oh. Bob Neal (00:31:26): Ed died first you know. Roy Penberthy (00:31:27): Yes. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:31:29): And then Effie lived there alone. Roy Penberthy (00:31:31): Yeah. You know, she called me up one day and ... Bob Neal (00:31:35): Go Roy. Roy Penberthy (00:31:35): Well, we stopped, I stopped in front of the Madison General Hospital and said, "Miss Early, this is the place here." I said, "If you want me to go in and show you where to go and what to do, I'd be glad to do it." "Oh, I sure wish you would", she said. So we went in, and she was terribly crippled up, I had to help her. She was a large lady too. And uh the office there, that lobby was full of people waiting for visiting hours, you know. And they looked at me and they looked at her, and I suppose she, they thought she was my girlfriend or something. I don't know. Roy Penberthy (00:32:02): �And, anyway, she had never been in a hospital before. She'd never ridden on an elevator, and when I took her over the elevator the whites of her eyes showed. And they, I mean, they run them fast anyway, and uh she said to me, "Roy, where's the ladies room?". I said, "Right over here." And she was so timid, you know. She wouldn't never have seen Ed had I not gone with her. Roy Penberthy (00:32:24): Anyway, I found out what his room number was and we went in. There's another guy in the bed over, in the same room. And Ed was telling her what to do. He knew he wasn't gonna get better. And telling her about their funeral arrangements and all that stuff. And uh this guy kept looking at Effie all the time she was there. And she's so timid. She, and she came out, and I was there waiting for her, and she said, "You know, I don't know one word that Ed told me. That old man in the other bed kept looking at me all the time I was in the room." And she, she didn't get any good out of it at all, you know. But um, she was a very nice person. Jack Holzhueter (00:32:59): But, they did not live, in your recollection, in the west end of the row? Roy Penberthy (00:33:05): I think so. That's what I thought. In later years, I thought so. But I remember when they lived up at Edgar's too. Bob Neal (00:33:13): Well, they sold out, they had a sale. Roy Penberthy (00:33:17): Yeah. Bob Neal (00:33:17): Of Effie's things up where Edgar lives. Roy Penberthy (00:33:19): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:33:21): And Peterson was the executor of her estate. Roy Penberthy (00:33:23): Yeah. I remember seeing the bill. Bob Neal (00:33:25): And uh I, I didn't know where they lived before that. Their father was Henry Early. Roy Penberthy (00:33:33): Yeah, Henry, that's right. �Bob Neal (00:33:35): And he had a um harness ... Was it leather or harnesses? Roy Penberthy (00:33:42): I think leather. I don't know, something like that. Bob Neal (00:33:45): And his father was Robert Early, who was a freed slave. Roy Penberthy (00:33:49): Oh. Bob Neal (00:33:50): There's a picture of Robert Early in the uh Gundry scrapbook. Roy Penberthy (00:33:59): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:34:00): At the Mineral Point Room. Jack Holzhueter (00:34:00): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Well, uh how would you characterize that neighborhood uh when you first remembered it? Was it independent more or less from the rest of town, or integrated? And that is, did it have its own stores? And you remember the the shoe shop et cetera. Roy Penberthy (00:34:20): Well, that's about the only store. And the pop factory. Bob Neal (00:34:20): Yeah, that was the store there. Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:34:20): That was the only thing down there? Roy Penberthy (00:34:20): I didn't know that was a pop factory though. Jack Holzhueter (00:34:20): Okay. Bob Neal (00:34:20): Well, you're not old enough Roy. �Roy Penberthy (00:34:23): No, that's it. I am very young. Jack Holzhueter (00:34:34): Mm-hmm (affirmative). But itBob Neal (00:34:34): There were no stores, other than Kit Day's shoe store. Roy Penberthy (00:34:39): That's right. Bob Neal (00:34:42): On Spruce Street there were no stores. There wasn't a little community, or entity in itself. Jack Holzhueter (00:34:48): So, it was very much a part of town? Bob Neal (00:34:50): A part of town. Roy Penberthy (00:34:50): Yes. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (00:34:52): Okay. Did it um have uh an ethnic identity attached to it? Such as Cornish or Yankee or anything of that sort? Bob Neal (00:35:01): I don't think so. Roy Penberthy (00:35:01): No. I don't think so. Jack Holzhueter (00:35:03): In your recollection, has there ever been a part of town that did? Roy Penberthy (00:35:06): Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:35:07): What? �Roy Penberthy (00:35:08): What'd you say? Jack Holzhueter (00:35:11): Has there uh which part, in your recollection, have, has any part of Mineral Point ever had a Cornish identification or some other kind ofRoy Penberthy (00:35:20): Well, Pendarvis and that area was definitely Cornish. Bob Neal (00:35:22): WellRoy Penberthy (00:35:22): With the Kislingburys and Frances. Bob Neal (00:35:26): And Rango and Francis. Roy Penberthy (00:35:27): Yeah. Bob Neal (00:35:28): But then up here on Jackson Street, Mr. Gundry always referred to that as French Town. Roy Penberthy (00:35:36): Punch Town. Bob Neal (00:35:37): French Town. Roy Penberthy (00:35:38): Oh, French Town. Oh, really? Bob Neal (00:35:39): What was Emma ... What was Emma Whalen's mother's name? Roy Penberthy (00:35:43): Emma Whalen? Now wait a minute. Her mother's name? Oh God, I don't remember that. Bob Neal (00:35:46): Oh. �Roy Penberthy (00:35:46): I don't know. Bob Neal (00:35:50): It began with G. Roy Penberthy (00:35:55): Can you give me a little more? Emma Whalen. I really don't know. Nothing's coming back to me. Bob Neal (00:36:03): Well, that was always French Town, supposedly people of French descent lived there. And then down further, which I have never been able to identify, was an area that was mining and it was known as the Irish Mines. Roy Penberthy (00:36:21): Oh. Bob Neal (00:36:23): I presume worked by Irishmen. Jack Holzhueter (00:36:25): This could be south? Bob Neal (00:36:27): Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:36:27): Well, about what street? Bob Neal (00:36:29): South of French Town. South of Jackson. Roy Penberthy (00:36:32): Jackson Street. Jack Holzhueter (00:36:32): South Jackson. Roy Penberthy (00:36:36): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (00:36:36): Was there an Italian section of town? �Bob Neal (00:36:36): Oh yes, and there still is. Roy Penberthy (00:36:37): A what? Jack Holzhueter (00:36:38): Italian. Roy Penberthy (00:36:39): Oh, yeah, sure. Bob Neal (00:36:40): They're over here at the end of this street. Roy Penberthy (00:36:41): Yep. Jack Holzhueter (00:36:42): Which is State Street? Bob Neal (00:36:43): Yeah. Roy Penberthy (00:36:44): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:36:45): How many Italians? Roy Penberthy (00:36:47): Oh, there used to be a number of Italians and, you know, they didn't have anything in their home. They just sat on boxes. No curtained up the windows or anything like that. And now they have the nicest places in town. Jack Holzhueter (00:36:58): Did they come to mine? Roy Penberthy (00:37:00): Uh they worked at the furnace. Jack Holzhueter (00:37:02): About what time did they ... What period did they first begin arriving? �Roy Penberthy (00:37:06): Early, uh maybeBob Neal (00:37:07): No, they came here first to work on the railroad. Roy Penberthy (00:37:11): Did they? Is that when it was? Bob Neal (00:37:12): Yeah. Yeah. Uh now, where's my ... How can I document that? Uh I thought ... Everybody thinks that they were brought over like slaves from Sicily to work in the zinc works. Roy Penberthy (00:37:29): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:37:29): Well, they weren't. They got their jobs after they got here. Roy Penberthy (00:37:32): Oh. Bob Neal (00:37:33): At the zinc works. And do you remember that long uh dormitory sort of house over on, by the zinc works over here on the hill? Well, it's on the left, this left hand side of State Street where a lot of the single Italians lived. I think, I think uh Bertucci lived in there. Wasn't he murdered in there? Roy Penberthy (00:38:01): I don't know the place you're talking about. On the left hand side of State Street? Bob Neal (00:38:05): On this side of State Street. Roy Penberthy (00:38:06): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:38:07): Way over. Roy Penberthy (00:38:07): Way over. How far over? Bob Neal (00:38:11): �Well, it would be beyond Fifth, beyond Sixth Street maybe. Roy Penberthy (00:38:16): Oh. Mm-hmm (affirmative). No, I don't recall that. Bob Neal (00:38:21): I can recall the building but uhRoy Penberthy (00:38:23): I don't. Bob Neal (00:38:23): What was that Bertucci's name? Roy Penberthy (00:38:25): Frank. Frank Bertucci? Bob Neal (00:38:27): His father. Roy Penberthy (00:38:28): Oh, umBob Neal (00:38:29): He got murdered. Roy Penberthy (00:38:31): I don't remember that. Bob Neal (00:38:31): They always said he was a mafia. Jack Holzhueter (00:38:34): Here in Mineral Point? Bob Neal (00:38:38): Well, mafia in that case. Jack Holzhueter (00:38:39): Was, how would you characterize the hill? The Strong's addition as its referred to on the plats. Where the larger houses are. Bob Neal (00:38:46): �Well, I think that's residential. Roy Penberthy (00:38:49): Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:38:50): What ethnic group, if any, was associated with that? Bob Neal (00:38:53): Nothing. Roy Penberthy (00:38:53): None in particular, yeah, I don't think. Jack Holzhueter (00:38:54): American. Bob Neal (00:38:54): I would say, yes. Jack Holzhueter (00:38:56): Just that? Bob Neal (00:38:56): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (00:39:00): Alright. Uh do you think that the city park being across the street from Pendarvis, what is Pendarvis today, has had any effect in helping those buildings survive? You said there were 70, there are 13 left et cetera. Bob Neal (00:39:16): No. No. Nothing. When the park was started Doc Brown was mayor. Roy Penberthy (00:39:23): Yeah. Doc Brown was mayor, that's right. Bob Neal (00:39:25): And this was the soldiers ... It was called the Soldiers Memorial Park and uh it was done after World War I. Roy Penberthy (00:39:36): So, do you remember Reuben Ellsworth? He had a boat and he used to go around there and charge a nickel every time. �Bob Neal (00:39:42): Yeah. Roy Penberthy (00:39:43): And one fair time here, Reuben Ellsworth, he had a butter place down there. Bob Neal (00:39:47): Right near where you were born. Roy Penberthy (00:39:49): Yeah, right there. Right there, mm-hmm (affirmative). Well, anyway, he had an airplane and they announced that Reuben Ellsworth was gonna attempt a parachute jump. So, the plane come up and circled around and out comes the thing, and the parachute didn't open. Oh, Reuben's gone, he's dead. Pretty soon he come in the amphitheater smoking a big cigar, "How do you do folks? How do you do?" It was a dummy on that, not Ellsworth at all. Oh, he was terrible. Terrible. Bob Neal (00:40:16): Oh, he and Harry Nohr wereRoy Penberthy (00:40:18): Oh, so you know something? UhJack Holzhueter (00:40:22): Were what? Bob Neal (00:40:22): Malicious they were. They had a vicious streak in them. They abused Irvine and Harold Toby. Roy Penberthy (00:40:31): Yeah. They gave them a bar of soap and tried to wash the black off, and they said, "No, it won't come off, that's down deep." Bob Neal (00:40:37): And Harry Nohr took some ... With the creamery down there. Roy Penberthy (00:40:42): Yes. Bob Neal (00:40:42): Where you're, where you were born. They had milk, cream cans come in on the railroad, and the cans are numbered as to who the farmer was that owned them. And they evidently had paint down there and Harry Nohr painted uh Irvine Toby with stripes on his face, and made him look like a Zulu and then sent him down- �Roy Penberthy (00:41:10): They were terrible. Bob Neal (00:41:11): Oh, they were terrible. Roy Penberthy (00:41:12): Yeah, the McIlhon girls actually tried them quite a bit. They owned the house there where they stored these milk cans, you know. And they weren't paying any storage on it. So, these children went there. They wanted to stop there and talk to them. And they went in and Rube and Harry made out they were deaf, stone deaf. And I could hear them yelling at them, you know. And they come out and they were just ... They were school teachers in Chicago. And they were just all in where she went I don't care if we don't get no rent, I'm never going to go in there again. Those two men are just stone deaf, they can't hear nothing. They were just wore out. Bob Neal (00:41:42): Well, Harry kept that on until later years. Roy Penberthy (00:41:45): Sure. Bob Neal (00:41:45): When they, kids would come for trick or treat, he'd uh pretend he couldn't understand them. Roy Penberthy (00:41:52): Yeah. Yeah. That was Harry. Bob Neal (00:42:01): And cup his ears and say, "Tickle my feet?" And it was wave at him and go along. And then Fred Gollinor when he, when they got Irvine Toby, they bought him a suit of clothes and uh ... Fred Gollinor wanted something done in his boiler factory down there and hired Irvine to go in there with his new suit of clothes and fell in the boiler and just ruined it. Roy Penberthy (00:42:27): Irvine got married you know. And he came up to me, he was up in Wiesen's Barbershop with his new wife. And he's like, "I've gotta go down to Roy's and introduce my wife to Roy." Well, evidently I wasn't home and I didn't get to meet her. But uh, he he died didn't he? Bob Neal (00:42:42): Well, they're both gone. Roy Penberthy (00:42:43): Yeah, both gone. What became of Ethel Toby? �Bob Neal (00:42:45): I don't know. She might be living. Roy Penberthy (00:42:47): And Tooty. Tooty, the oldest one, Willy. Bob Neal (00:42:51): Willy, he died up in Muscoda, not so many years ago. Roy Penberthy (00:42:52): I saw him one time up there in that area, Muscoda. Bob Neal (00:42:52): Years and years ago. Roy Penberthy (00:42:52): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (00:42:56): The Toby's are, of course, black. Roy Penberthy (00:42:57): Yeah, that's right. Bob Neal (00:42:58): Yeah. Roy Penberthy (00:43:01): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:43:01): But they're all gone from Mineral Point? Roy Penberthy (00:43:03): Yeah. They're gone. Bob Neal (00:43:03): Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:43:04): Descendants may still beBob Neal (00:43:06): �No. Jack Holzhueter (00:43:06): Around? Not even on the Muscoda? Alright. Bob Neal (00:43:08): No, I don't think so. Jack Holzhueter (00:43:08): Um back to Pendarvis. How closely would you say um the people and the buildings, the people who lived in the buildings themselves were associated with the mining industry, or would you associate them with something else? Roy Penberthy (00:43:27): Well, I would think mining, wouldn't you Bob? That's where the street got its name from. Bob Neal (00:43:33): Well, Andy Angrove, what did he do? He drove a teamRoy Penberthy (00:43:37): A team of horses and hauled out. Bob Neal (00:43:39): Dray, Drayman. Roy Penberthy (00:43:41): Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:43:41): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:43:41): Um and they tell that story about uh what was Sammy's wife's name? Roy Penberthy (00:43:52): I don't know. I don't know what her name was. Jack Holzhueter (00:43:58): What about the Phillips? What did they do for a living? Roy Penberthy (00:44:02): Well, some of them farmed. George Phillips farmed. Jack Holzhueter (00:44:04): �Well, ShadyRoy Penberthy (00:44:05): Where did Sherman Phillips work? Do you remember? Right next to your Lang's house there, Sherman built the house. Well, your guest house. It used to be your guest house. Sherman Phillips, don't you recall him? Bob Neal (00:44:17): No. I know the name. Roy Penberthy (00:44:19): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:44:19): But I don't recall that. Roy Penberthy (00:44:19): Well, George farmed. Jack Holzhueter (00:44:21): Well, the the Schmidts that you mentioned for example, what did they do? Bob Neal (00:44:25): Oh, I think he worked at the zinc works, didn't he? Roy Penberthy (00:44:29): What? Who is it did you say? Bob Neal (00:44:30): Schmidt. Jack Holzhueter (00:44:30): Schmidt. Bob Neal (00:44:30): Kate Schmidt's husband. Roy Penberthy (00:44:32): Oh. Bob Neal (00:44:35): I think he worked at the zinc works. Roy Penberthy (00:44:36): �I think so, yeah, I think so. Bob Neal (00:44:37): All the pension records and all the things are on deposit at the Mineral Point Room. And the, all theJack Holzhueter (00:44:46): For, for the zinc works? Bob Neal (00:44:49): For the zinc works. Roy Penberthy (00:44:50): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (00:44:50): Well, then we can do that work ourselves. Would you consider Pendarvis, uh the area around it, sort of the edge of town down there, or did it have a different kind of connotation? Roy Penberthy (00:45:06): Well, the brewery was out still further than that. Jack Holzhueter (00:45:08): You consider the brewery more the edge of town? Bob Neal (00:45:11): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Roy Penberthy (00:45:11): Yeah, extreme edge. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (00:45:13): The extreme edge. But did the people who lived down there, in your estimation, it's always said by so many people that this was the slum of Mineral Point. We're trying to figure out when it may have acquired that reputation. Roy Penberthy (00:45:25): Oh. Bob Neal (00:45:26): Did you ever look up in Webster's Unabridged the definition of Shake Rag? Jack Holzhueter (00:45:32): Not of shake rag, a slum I thought you were gonna ask me. Alright, tell me. �Bob Neal (00:45:37): It means uh in Webster's Unabridged says it's a low class area. Well, it it identifies it ... Look it up Sam. Jack Holzhueter (00:45:52): Sam is Mr. Sam Holmes who's the host today for this taping. He hasn't been introduced on the tape. And he is looking up shake rag. Bob Neal (00:46:05): So, shake rag really has two connotations. The shaking of the rag and this definition of a ... Jack Holzhueter (00:46:17): Were the zinc mines and the lead mines in the same places? Bob Neal (00:46:21): No. Jack Holzhueter (00:46:21): They were not? Bob Neal (00:46:23): No. Roy Penberthy (00:46:23): No. Bob Neal (00:46:25): Lead was first of course. Roy Penberthy (00:46:26): Were you ever in a mine? I never was. Bob Neal (00:46:29): Dad took me down a mine. Roy Penberthy (00:46:31): I never did a mine. Bob Neal (00:46:32): Scared to death all the time. Roy Penberthy (00:46:34): Oh yeah. �Bob Neal (00:46:35): The man, the superintendent of the mine was a heavyset man and you know these iron buckets that they used to haul the ore up? Roy Penberthy (00:46:43): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:46:48): Uh they'd lower it in and this Mr. Weil, who was superintendent of the mines ... I was in the bucket with a kind of a slicker on, and dad was in. And this Mr. Weil put one foot in and let one foot hang out and it tipped the, threw the thing off center and I was scared to death. Get down there, water dripping ... Jack Holzhueter (00:47:14): How far down? Bob Neal (00:47:18): Well, you ... The Cornish never minedRoy Penberthy (00:47:20): Deep. Bob Neal (00:47:21): They couldn't mine below the water table. Roy Penberthy (00:47:24): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:47:26): And they'd go down and they'd hit water and that was it. Jack Holzhueter (00:47:28): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:47:30): Alright. Jack Holzhueter (00:47:32): Well, so that the immediate diggings around the 1870 birds eye map, '71 or '72 birds eye map, shows diggings for lead in the immediate vicinity of the Pendarvis houses. Roy Penberthy (00:47:46): Right, yeah. �Jack Holzhueter (00:47:47): But, they were not uh used later, those diggings, for zinc mining. Bob Neal (00:47:51): Yeah, they never, never were. Roy Penberthy (00:47:53): No. Bob Neal (00:47:53): They never mined zinc where that was. Roy Penberthy (00:47:56): No. Bob Neal (00:47:57): That was later, that was. The zinc ore, they knew what it was, but it was discarded. What do you got Sam? Sam Holmes (00:48:06): Well, in the Webster's Dictionary, Bob, they don't define shake rag. But, in the Oxford Dictionary they do. Bob Neal (00:48:16): Good. Sam Holmes (00:48:16): They define shake rag as a ragged, disreputable person. Also, beggarly. So, you're right in essence. Bob Neal (00:48:29): Yeah. Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:48:31): The English word, or definition, then would be that of a lowerBob Neal (00:48:36): Lower stratum. Jack Holzhueter (00:48:36): Stratum. Originally, of course, it was called Hoard Street on the map that we always refer to. Bob Neal (00:48:44): Yeah. Yeah. �Jack Holzhueter (00:48:46): When did it acquireBob Neal (00:48:46): Well, you know that's a contraction. It was named after Robert Hoard, and it was, as I've always understood it, it was a misspelling and pronunciation of his ... Robert Howard. Jack Holzhueter (00:49:01): Oh. Bob Neal (00:49:01): And the W was dropped in copying some of the literature. Did you ever come across that? Jack Holzhueter (00:49:06): Yeah, and I don't know who it was that questioned. Of course, we know who Robert Hoard was. Bob Neal (00:49:09): Yes. You know who Robert Hoard was, it was, it was his name, the name was Howard. And I don't know if they're related to the illustrious Howard's of England or not. Alright, never mind. Jack Holzhueter (00:49:29): Well, okay, we we uh the zinc mines though were farther south were they? Bob Neal (00:49:34): The, as I started to say, the lead mines were worked with a windlass, and they worked down to water. They couldn't go beyond that. The zinc was discarded. They knew what it was but they had no way of smelting it until Madison and Hegler came in here with a smelting system that they put, brought over from Freiburg, Germany and founded the zinc works. Philips Dodge was connected here too, Sam. Jack Holzhueter (00:50:12): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:50:14): I've often wondered if they have any early records. Mr. Gundry told me that there used to be a smelting plant, and I think it must have been Philips Dodge, down by the Mile Crossing. Roy Penberthy (00:50:33): Oh, yes. Bob Neal (00:50:35): There's no indication of any buildings or nothing there. Roy Penberthy (00:50:38): �No. Bob Neal (00:50:38): Unless you drive in and looked around and see whether there's any footings left. But until, until they had a system of smelting the zinc it was discarded. And then eastern interests came in and bought mining rights and dug deep. Jack Holzhueter (00:51:02): And brought in the new technologicalBob Neal (00:51:04): And do it right. Jack Holzhueter (00:51:04): Equipment and information. Uh technically speaking, too the Cornish did know about how to pump because they hadBob Neal (00:51:14): Oh, the Hoskin's Pump, yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:51:15): They were using pumps in the 1820s and '30s very successfully in Cornwall. Bob Neal (00:51:19): Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (00:51:19): To keep mines dry, but evidently they didn't choose to do the same thing here. Bob Neal (00:51:24): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (00:51:24): Maybe for financial reasons. I don't know. Bob Neal (00:51:27): Piggy Sow was always considered a wet mine. Roy Penberthy (00:51:30): Oh, was it? Bob Neal (00:51:31): Yeah. Around here, he's up the crick here. �Roy Penberthy (00:51:36): Yeah, we used to go swim there, Piggy Sow. Bob Neal (00:51:36): Piggy Sow. Roy Penberthy (00:51:37): And and Copper Bottom was the other swimming hole. Bob Neal (00:51:39): Yeah. That's who, that was one of the copper mines I think, the Piggy Sow. Jack Holzhueter (00:51:44): Where is the Piggy Sow? Can you be a little more specific? Roy Penberthy (00:51:46): East, eastern, it's up there. East of Mineral Point. Jack Holzhueter (00:51:50): Oh, okay. We, of course, in our research have become very interested in specific names. I know that you know the Kislingbury family. The two earliest Kislingburys, so far as we can determine, were George and Richard. And we, first of all, want to know whether you know how they were related and whether you know of members of their respective families today. And secondly, we are very curious, because we know that George Kislingbury was born in Berkshire, East Isley. Uh how does he become a Cornishman? Bob Neal (00:52:34): Well, Will Kislingbury was our carpenter out at Pendarvis. And uhJack Holzhueter (00:52:45): Whose son was he, do you know? Bob Neal (00:52:47): I don't know what his father's name was. Roy Penberthy (00:52:48): I don't know either. Bob Neal (00:52:48): Do you remember Cora Kislingbury? Roy Penberthy (00:52:50): Sure, I remember Cora. �Bob Neal (00:52:53): His sister. Roy Penberthy (00:52:56): You bet. Bob Neal (00:52:56): Well, I just talked a couple of, a week ago, when Saint Louis was all snowed in. I got a call from Francis Kislingbury Telfair and who took all of our pictures out at Pendarvis, he was there. Well, we permitted him access to interiors which we wouldn't allow anybody else. So, Barry and Francis, her husband, have always been very close to us and and when uh ... In fact, I found ... I broke into that house. I had to break in Kislingbury's house and found him dead on the floor, you know. Jack Holzhueter (00:53:38): Oh. Bob Neal (00:53:39): Up there, in the corner area you know where he lived Jack Holzhueter (00:53:40): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:53:40): You know where he lived? Jack Holzhueter (00:53:40): Yeah, mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:53:43): And you could contact Barry and Francis Telfair. She was a Kislingbury. Her father was Henry Kislingbury. Jack Holzhueter (00:53:54): Oh. Bob Neal (00:53:56): And they lived out across from the Pendarvis and then we used to go out to Kislingbury's for scalded cream. Roy Penberthy (00:54:03): Yeah, we did too. Bob Neal (00:54:05): Did you? �Roy Penberthy (00:54:09): Mm-hmm (affirmative). I thought you were going to say to pick violets. That whole bottom, that whole meadow there is just covered in violets. Bob Neal (00:54:12): Oh, and boggy, kind of boggy. Roy Penberthy (00:54:14): Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (00:54:14): Where is this house? Roy Penberthy (00:54:15): Kislingbury's. Jack Holzhueter (00:54:17): Uh describe the location. Bob Neal (00:54:20): Right across from Pendarvis. Right across fromRoy Penberthy (00:54:21): Yeah, fromBob Neal (00:54:22): It would beRoy Penberthy (00:54:23): FrancisBob Neal (00:54:23): Francis's house, farther up the street. Roy Penberthy (00:54:26): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (00:54:26): And that is Henry Kislingbury? Roy Penberthy (00:54:30): Will. No, Will. �Bob Neal (00:54:31): Will and Henry. Roy Penberthy (00:54:33): Or Henry, yeah, that's right. Bob Neal (00:54:34): Were brothers. Roy Penberthy (00:54:34): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:54:37): Now, let's see, what was I gonna say? Jack Holzhueter (00:54:41): Did you consider them Cornish? Roy Penberthy (00:54:42): Yes. At one time I was eating up in the restaurant and Bill Kislingbury came in and sat right by me and I uh had, he ordered a half dinner. And I had the works, you know, the whole thing. And I thought it should be reversed, he had more money than I had, I should be eating the half and he should have the ... He was awful tight wasn't he? Bob Neal (00:55:05): Yeah. Roy Penberthy (00:55:05): Awful tight. Jack Holzhueter (00:55:05): What did he do for a living? Roy Penberthy (00:55:05): What? Bob Neal (00:55:05): Carpenter. Roy Penberthy (00:55:05): Yeah, carpenter. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Neal (00:55:05): �A carpenter. Roy Penberthy (00:55:11): He wasn't very friendly was he? Not like us, you know. Kind of just aBob Neal (00:55:20): Well, you can write to them at 736 in person. Jack Holzhueter (00:55:22): Well, we've been in touch with the Telfairs too. Bob Neal (00:55:26): Well, why didn't you say so? Jack Holzhueter (00:55:27): UhBob Neal (00:55:27): You took the words out of my mouth. Jack Holzhueter (00:55:32): Sorry about that. The well, we obviously have to ask the same people many of the same questions. Uh George Kislingbury, we know married a Whitford. What do you know of the Whitford family around here today? Roy Penberthy (00:55:47): There's a lot of Whitfords. Bob Neal (00:55:49): Yes. Roy Penberthy (00:55:49): A lot of Whitfords that I don't know. Jack Holzhueter (00:55:53): But you don't know how they're connected. Roy Penberthy (00:55:54): No. Jack Holzhueter (00:55:54): Alright. Well, do you know anything about, I hope I say this name right for for Mineral Pointers, Nicholas and William U'Ren. �Roy Penberthy (00:56:08): They just changed that in the later years to Uren, you know? Jack Holzhueter (00:56:11): They do say Uren now. Roy Penberthy (00:56:12): Mm-hmm (affirmative). But that U'R-E-N, U'Ren. Jack Holzhueter (00:56:12): Mm-hmm (affirmative). WellBob Neal (00:56:17): They add a little juice to the conversation out east of town in the Waldwick and that area. The Pratts, Balls, U'Rens and Coxes could have a family reunion. Jack Holzhueter (00:56:43): Well, Nicholas and William are associated with the east end of the row. They were the ones who bought it from the builder who was obviously Sampson Thomas and his son-in-law John Gray. Susanna Thomas married John Gray and they came over in '44 with her parents Sampson and Susan Thomas. Bob Neal (00:57:18): Where did Liz go? Upstairs? Jack Holzhueter (00:57:18): This is Mrs. Holmes. Sam Holmes (00:57:18): I don't know where she went. Bob Neal (00:57:19): Well, there's a, there's quite a ... I got from one of the Gray family descendants the whole history of the, of the Thomas's and the Grays. Jack Holzhueter (00:57:41): And that's in the Mineral Point Room now? Bob Neal (00:57:42): I think it is. Jack Holzhueter (00:57:43): Terrific. �Bob Neal (00:57:46): I want to know whether Liz came across it. Jack Holzhueter (00:57:47): Well, we'll ask her about it, believe me. Okay, they didn't own it terribly long and they sold it to a Nicholas and/or William U'Ren. Bob Neal (00:57:57): Where did you get this information? Jack Holzhueter (00:57:58): From the deeds and the mortgages. Bob Neal (00:58:02): From the mortgages in theJack Holzhueter (00:58:02): Deeds in the courthouses. Bob Neal (00:58:03): Are the abstracts on the properties out there? Jack Holzhueter (00:58:05): Yes. We have abstracts as well. They're in the secretary's state office now. Bob Neal (00:58:11): We had uh, we had abstracts drawn on all of the property out there and I wondered whether they were still iextant. Jack Holzhueter (00:58:19): Oh yes. They're in the secretary's states vault, well kept. We have a xerox, a partial xerox we could show you if you want to look at them. Bob Neal (00:58:32): No. No. It would be source material certainly. Jack Holzhueter (00:58:33): Well, then we went from the in part, we went from the abstract to the deeds and mortgages, but uh we also used them independently. And we were wondering whether you know about how Nicholas and William U'Ren were related? Bob Neal (00:58:54): I don't. �Jack Holzhueter (00:58:54): You don't? Bob Neal (00:58:55): No. Jack Holzhueter (00:58:56): Okay. We won't bother you with those. Does the name Anne or Anna Williams ring a bell? Wife of Henry Williams who married John Tregay? And then they were divorced, it must have been rather a scandal because they were together only a little while. Bob Neal (00:59:13): Uh-uh. Roy Penberthy (00:59:14): No. Jack Holzhueter (00:59:15): She is the one for whom Pendarvis was built according to the court suit. Roy Penberthy (00:59:20): Oh, is that right? Jack Holzhueter (00:59:21): That's right. Roy Penberthy (00:59:23): Penberthy and Tregay are names on the first, on the Pendarvis deeds and abstracts. Jack Holzhueter (00:59:32): Yeah. A peculiar circumstance. I better spell this out to you Mr. Neal. I actually did a broadcast on it after we found the court suits. Mr. Kislingbury was a little sloppy in his record keeping at the courthouse and in 1843, the year he got married, he straightened out his act. He had a surveyor come in and do a special survey of the lots of lot 192, and he shows how he had had it divided at that point, even though there were no sales from it quite yet. And the names of the persons are associated with it: Moyle is on there. Bob Neal (01:00:15): I never heard, I never heard of the name Moyle. Roy Penberthy (01:00:19): I never did. Jack Holzhueter (01:00:20): �Yeah. Roy Penberthy (01:00:20): How do you say that again? Jack Holzhueter (01:00:22): M-O-Y-L-E, Moyle. Roy Penberthy (01:00:22): No. Jack Holzhueter (01:00:23): We can show you a copy of the map. Bob Neal (01:00:25): No, that's fine. I'll take your word for it. Jack Holzhueter (01:00:29): Okay. In any event, Pendarvis, the little 25 foot lot of which it is set off, was not yetBob Neal (01:00:36): 33 foot lot. Jack Holzhueter (01:00:38): That was Trelawny. Bob Neal (01:00:41): Pendarvis is? Jack Holzhueter (01:00:42): 25. Bob Neal (01:00:43): Are you sure? Jack Holzhueter (01:00:44): Yep. We'll show you. Okay, sizes don't count. The first person to get it on the deeds, or in the mortgages, was a man named Penberthy, James Penberthy. Roy Penberthy (01:01:00): Oh, that was my father's name, but it wasn't, he uhJack Holzhueter (01:01:03): �Different one? Roy Penberthy (01:01:04): Yeah. Jack Holzhueter (01:01:04): Okay. Actually he never built or lived in the house, it was strictly a mortgage arrangement that is spelled out in a court suit that Mrs. John Tregay had against Mrs. Catherine Penberthy, the widow of James in the 1850s. And she relates precisely in the suit and all the evidence what went on. Her husband, Henry Williams, had purchased without benefit of deed or instrument the land on which Pendarvis stands in 1845 and built on it, that same year, beginning in June, Pendarvis, the cottage. Roy Penberthy (01:01:50): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jack Holzhueter (01:01:51): He died in '48. Just before his death, Mr. Kislingbury brought together Mr. Penberthy and Mr. Williams and had Mr. Penberthy lend $50 to Mr. Williams to pay for the property on which the house stands and the deed was given to Mr. ... � Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pendarvis Interview - Part I (transcript) https://mineralpointlibraryarchives.org/omeka/files/original/bbafcb1e88d230e081a087547c20a15f.jpg 23126e14a7ff8138b17aebeacffc53db Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Old City Cemetery Gravesite The site of a grave. Age Years 26 Birth Day 04 Birth Month 08 Birth Year 1843 Birth City Norridgewock Birth State Postal ME Birth State Maine Birth Country Code US Birth Country United States Gravestone Transcription Chas. F. Abbott Aug 4th, 1843 - July 23d 1869 Comments scroll on base - Civil War vet; NO gar STR1976 list Death Day 23 Death City Mineral Point Death County Iowa Death State Postal WI Death State Wisconsin Death Month 07 Death Year 1869 First Name Charles Last Name Abbot Middle Name F Obituary Day 24 Obituary Month 07 Obituary Source MP Tribune Obituary Transcription Mr. Charles L. Abbot, manager of the Linden Mines, is lying dangerously ill at the residence of Mr.T. J. Campbell in this city. Mr. Abbott is a comparative stranger here, which makes his illness appear particularly sad. His parents at Boston, have been telegraphed to. P.S. Since the above was put in type Mr. Abbott has ceased to live. Mineral Point Tribune July 24, 1869 Obituary Year 1869 Gravestone Section.Stone.Burial SE.24.1 Cemetery Old City Cemetery Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Abbot, Charles F (1843-1869) Gravesite of Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Old City Cemetery Gravesite The site of a grave. Age Months 9 Birth Day 03 Birth Month 03 Birth Year 1836 Comments shared large obelisk; had been Mary Scott Ansley; per 2015 list: 4 sided obelisk Death Day 03 Death State Postal WI Death State Wisconsin Death Month 12 Death Year 1836 First Name Mary Last Name Ansley Middle Name Scott Notes same as "Scott" listed on 2015 mapping list? Gravestone Section.Stone.Burial NC.17.4 Sources 1966-68 Find A Grave 1966-68 Church Women's List Cemetery Old City Cemetery Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ansley, Mary Scott (1836-1836) Gravesite of https://mineralpointlibraryarchives.org/omeka/files/original/b339a7fe68bcc5923d0862cb18c53684.jpeg 87c5201972581cde247690369357c37d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Old City Cemetery Gravesite The site of a grave. Age Years 47 Birth Year 1797 Birth City St Johns Birth Country Code CA Birth Country Canada Biographical Text <h3>Find A Grave</h3> <br />John Ansley was the first local Postmaster in the Mineral Point area. John D. Ansley was the son of Thomas and Mary (Scott) Ansley. He was born in Canada. Ansley is said to have been married but left no family. He is mentioned in his father's letters as of a roving disposition and as spending part of his life at sea. In 1829 he went to Mineral Point, Wisconsin and became a prominent man in the territory of Wisconsin, being known as Col. Ansley. The last record of his activities is of a trip to England to finance his mining operations. <br /><br />Source: "<a href="https://archive.org/details/ouransleyfamilyb00davi">Our Ansley Family</a>" by Harold Ansley Davidson, 1933, p. 16. <br /> <h3>Wisconsin Dictionary of History</h3> In 1829 he was a resident of Mineral Point where he owned a dry-goods store and a copper mine three miles to the south. In 1835 and 1836 he was smelting ore that assayed as much as 20 to 30 per cent copper and was bringing high prices in Boston. Encouraged by his prospects, he obtained capital investors in Pennsylvania. Adverse reports by George W. Featherstonhaugh, however, resulted in his backers having him jailed for fraud. He next sought capital in England but again Featherstonhaugh's reports prevented consummation of his plans. His mine was incorporated in the Iowa Copper Company in 1844. <br /><br />J. Schafer, Wis. Lead Region (Madison, 1932); Mineral Point Miner's Free Press, June 4, 1839 Comments shared large obelisk; husband of Mary Ann; per 2015 list: 4 sided obelisk Death Day 01 Death State Postal WI Death State Wisconsin Death Month 12 Death Year 1844 First Name John Last Name Ansley Middle Name D. Notes brother of Thomas Scott Ansley Gravestone Section.Stone.Burial NC.17.2 Sources 1966-68 1984 Find A Grave 1966-68 Church Women's List 1984 Eagle Scout Map Cemetery Old City Cemetery Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ansley, John D. (1797-1844) Gravesite of Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Old City Cemetery Gravesite The site of a grave. Age Years 14 Birth Day 12 Birth Month 06 Birth Year 1834 Birth City Sussex Vale Birth Country Code CA Birth Country Canada Biographical Text Son of Thomas Ansley, Esq Comments shared large obelisk; per 2015 list: 4 sided obelisk Death Day 09 Death City Mineral Point Death County Iowa Death State Postal WI Death State Wisconsin Death Month 05 Death Year 1848 First Name Frederick Last Name Ansley Middle Name Scott Obituary Day 12 Obituary Month 05 Obituary Source WI Tribune Obituary Transcription DIED, Suddenly, on Tuesday last, [May 2, 1848] in this village, Frederick, son of Thomas Ansley, Esq., aged 14 years.The deceased was a youth of unusual promise and intelligence, and his sudden death, whilst it is a most sad and heart rendering bereavement to his afflicted family, has awakened a very deep and general feeling throughout the community, both of sympathy for the bereaved family and of sorrow for the loss of one so youthful, so promising and so beloved. Mineral Point Tribune May 12, 1848 Obituary Year 1848 Notes transcribed obit copied from Find-A-Grave Gravestone Section.Stone.Burial NC.17.3 Sources 1966-68 Find A Grave MPLA Obituary database 1966-68 Church Women's List Cemetery Old City Cemetery Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ansley, Frederick Scott (1834-1848) Gravesite of Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Old City Cemetery Gravesite The site of a grave. Age Years 72 Birth Day 26 Birth Month 07 Birth Year 1801 Birth City St Johns Birth Country Code CA Birth Country Canada Comments shared large four sided obelisk Death Day 15 Death City Mineral Point Death County Iowa Death State Postal WI Death State Wisconsin Death Month 01 Death Year 1873 First Name Thomas Sr. Last Name Ansley Obituary Day 16 Obituary Month 01 Obituary Source MP Tribune Obituary Transcription Died. Ansley. At his residence in this city, January 15th, Mr. Thomas Ansley, aged about 80 years. Mr. Ansley was one of the first settlers of Iowa county and leaves many bereaved friends and relatives. Mineral Point Tribune, Jan 16, 1873 Obituary Year 1873 Notes grandson of Loyalists Gravestone Section.Stone.Burial NC.17.1 Sources 1966-68 1978 Find A Grave 1976 MPLA Obituary database 1966-68 Church Women's List 1976 Women's Club Map Cemetery Old City Cemetery Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ansley, Thomas Sr. (1801-1873) Gravesite of Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Old City Cemetery Gravesite The site of a grave. Age Years 2 Birth Day 03 Birth Month 02 Birth Year 1873 Comments “Son of Thomas & Sara L.” (#1) Death Day 18 Death City Mineral Point Death County Iowa Death State Postal WI Death State Wisconsin Death Month 10 Death Year 1875 First Name Thomas Last Name Ansley Obituary Day 21 Obituary Month 10 Obituary Source MP Tribune Obituary Transcription Died. Ansley - In Monday, the 18th inst., at the residence of his parents, Thomas, youngest son of Thomas Scott and Eliza J. Ansley: aged 2 years, 8 months and 3 days. Mineral Point Tribune, Oct 21, 1875 Obituary Year 1875 Cemetery Old City Cemetery Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ansley, Thomas (1873-1875) Gravesite of Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Old City Cemetery Gravesite The site of a grave. Birth Day 01 Birth Month 05 Birth Year 1863 Gravestone Transcription Frank Son of James & Mary Ann Argall Died May 31, 1863 Ae 4 wks Comments May be Francis Death Day 31 Death State Postal WI Death State Wisconsin Death Month 05 Death Year 1863 First Name Frank Last Name Argall Notes son of James and Mary d. 3/31/1863 4 weeks Gravestone Section.Stone.Burial SE.31.1 Sources 1966-68 1978 Find A Grave 1976 1966-68 Church Women's List 1976 Women's Club Map Cemetery Old City Cemetery Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Argall, Frank (1863-1863) Gravesite of Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Old City Cemetery Gravesite The site of a grave. Age Years 78 Birth Year 1791 Birth Year Circa circa Comments small stone between SC.023 and SC.025 Death Day 01 Death City Mineral Point Death County Iowa Death State Postal WI Death State Wisconsin Death Month 06 Death Year 1869 First Name Richard Last Name Argall Obituary Day 02 Obituary Month 06 Obituary Source MP Tribune Obituary Transcription Died. Argall. In this city, June 1st, 1869, Mr. Richard Argall, aged about 78 years. Mineral Point Tribune June 2, 1869 Obituary Year 1869 Notes b.d. per MPLA obit db Gravestone Section.Stone.Burial SC.25.1 Sources 1966-68 1978 1976 MPLA Obituary database 1966-68 Church Women's List 1976 Women's Club Map Cemetery Old City Cemetery Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Argall, Richard (1791-1869) Gravesite of